FB, I'm usually in a more joking mood on other topics, but on this one I'll say that it is nothing to make light of. It is a sensitive issue that I have tried to handle privately in the past. I was forced to briefly take it to the boards just over a year ago, after which Paul became cooperative and fully agreed to honor his debts to the designers involved. I even offered him help with his TGP which he happily accepted. I have extensive ICQ logs saved that corroborate this.

I remained silent and gave him the past year to make payments to Rikki Lee like he promised he would. He made zero payments to her over that time. Instead he chose to just think that it would all just "go away" magically. I'm sorry, but it doesn't work that way. You can't rip people off and then go on about your merry way and continue to do business in this community without someone standing up and calling you on it. Well, I'm calling him on it, and it should come as no shock to him, because I told him this would happen if he reneged on his agreements again.

It isn't about some beef between he and myself. It can't be settled with a hug and a handshake. I wish it were that simple. He can, however, put an end to this at any time.

Should I thank you for allowing free speech and the truth to reign free? If so... thank you. Maybe most of the regulars here are shying away because they know of your personal ties to Paul? Ya think?

Judging by the page views this thread is getting, they are reading it at any rate. See, that's where you are wrong Jennifer. I've always like you and have had no problems with you, you know that. I am not attacking you at all. What I am doing is identifying your nickname as being one that sometimes promotes Paul's business. Why am I doin that? Because people need to know how to identify Paul's business so they know to avoid it. People easily forget, especially when faced with someone other than "hungryman" telling them to hire him.

I have not said one harsh thing about you personally other than identifying you as an active promoter of "Hungryman". That will never change, I won't start slinging insults your way arbitrarily. That isn't my style nor is it my focus. All I want is for Paul to clear his debt thus honoring the word he gave to me last year.

Show me the post of where your personal life was attacked and I will deal with the person. But remember, if you are going to promote Paul or take his side in any way, people need to know the whole truth, and that includes them knowing that you have a personal interest in this because you are his girlfriend.

You aren't, and I'm not saying you are responsible.

Again, I'm not attacking you. All I have done is identify you as
A) someone who promotes Hungryman,
and B) Hungryman's girlfriend.
I have not said anything that is not true, and have not cast any disparaging remarks in your direction.
I'm not "stooping" to anything.
I am simply taking a hard stance on thievery. If you truly don't know the facts as you say, why not go read the thread on GFY, ignoring the posts of those that aren't involved directly and focusing in on the comments of the designers themselves? It's all there. It won't eat up most of your day to read.

Here is the link: http://board.gofuckyourself.com/show...hreadid=250118

Paul has been caught in several lies on that thread alone. No one can argue with the proof, it is hard to disbelieve so many people. I spoke to people like Lightning who are trusted and well-respected in this community, and he confirms the allegations made by Bhutocracy, you can contact Lightning on ICQ and confirm this yourself. Then there is the designers who have the original files of work that they were not paid for or paid lower than appropriate amounts for. The person that hired them was Paul, and that was AFTER Paul and Pensfan has parted ways.


How anyone can read all that and still be confused as to what the deal is here is beyond me.


How many ways can I say this Jennifer? If you want this to end, if you are truly a friend to Paul, you will urge him to do the right thing and honor his debt and be a man about this, and it will all be over. I will even post public notices that he has paid his debts if you want.


I am not hard to find, let me know if you can get Paul to come to his senses....

31024634
admin at cdsmodels dot com

Panky, i don't think anyone is attacking you. I think CD was just pointing out that someone had decided to do something about a signautre pointing to paysitedesign/paysite-galleries. The email would have been the same regardless of who's signature it was, and CD's posting of it didn't come across as a personal attack, to me at least.

I'm sure that wasn't his intent. He just wanted to show that some people are waking up to Hungry's actions and are taking some action (minor as it may be).

And yes, there are two sides to every story. I've made bhutocracy's side abundantly clear. Did work. Received no payment whatsoever. I don't see how Hungryman's side of the story could differ at all. Besides, he won't even tell us his side of the story. He seems to dismiss it, and is expecting people to believe it just didn't happen.

I'd love to see the records that indicate hungry paid $1250 for that job to bhutocracy, or even the $500 when he lied to bhuto about the cost of the job. He didn't receive a cent. Not one.

Doesn't matter how old the situation is. It still hasn't been sorted, and that means the problem is still a current one.

No, what I meant by that was that every time I see anyone promoting Paul or Paul's sites I will identify that person. No more, no less. If there are a few posts of yours still lingering around on other boards where you have openly recommended Paul, I will very likely find them and post something to let people know the truth, if I haven't already.

I am not trying to be unfair, but make no mistake about it, if you promote a thief then in my view that means you support his theivery. I will therefore publicly identify anyone that I find promoting him or defending him or supporting him in any way. If you want to distance yourself from this, then start by helping me to end this as quickly as possible. I strongly urge his close friends to help him out by urging him to do the right thing by these designers who trusted him.

It is these conflicting statements that has me a bit confused btw.



I don't intend to attack you or anyone. This isn't about attacking, it is about people knowing the truth. If you say you are no longer promoting him then you have nothing to worry about.

I know...I was just trying to lighten things up! :(

I had already made that post before you brought it up here.

I did not say that paul uses your name to post. Let's keep our facts straight.
What the post says is this:
--------------------------------
"Nicknames that have been promoting Hungryman's business lately include:

paul1000
panky
-=HUNGRYMAN=-"
----------------------------------


The name "panky" appears on several other boards, you have made posts to others to recommend Paul for design work. I told you in my above post that I will identify all nicks that promote or recommend him to others. I don't want other designers to lose work because of any confusion about who is who.


Sorry, but I knew going into this that there would be some collateral dammage, but I think in your case it will be minimal. Remember Jennifer, I didn't cause all this to happen, Paul did.


Let's try that again....

Jennifer, I did not cause all this. PAUL did.


I won't mention your name or your nick in any further posts.

I do have trouble believing that you have no influence over Paul though. You just said "this shit is not my problem"..... I disagree. It is ALL of our problem, including you. Instead of telling me you are "annoyed" by my posts and yelling at me for pointing out that you have promoted Paul in past posts, you should be outraged by the blatant thievery he pulled on these designers, you should be OUTRAGED that his decietfulness is now causing you grief, and you should be yelling at him to do the right thing to make this go away.

If that doesn't happen soon, just know that the designers are going to send their proof of copyright infringement to Paul's host and if necessary thier upstream provider, and also Paul's ISP. We are going to try and have him shut down. I will also be talking with more of his past clients, because some of them are displaying what now amounts to stolen graphics. They are not going to be pleased. If you talk to Paul please make him understand that we are not playing around here, these are no longer just idle threats, it WILL happen. I intend to see this through to whatever end can be attained. Why? Because what Paul did was wrong, that's why.

I'm not just urging you, I am urging anyone that considers Paul a friend to try and get him to own up to his responsibility and pay these designers what he owes them.

I know..... and I would normally appreciate it, especially since you well know that you have always been one of my favorites.

I just wish that on this one issue I would see more people stating their opposition and outrage to the kind of thievery that has been described here. On ICQ everyone is vocal and supportive, but although there have been many good posts on various boards decrying Paul's behaviour, there needs to be more. He needs to see multitudes of webmasters and industry people stepping up and saying in no uncertain terms that what he did was wrong.

To be honest with you CD, I've tried to stay away from this one on purpose. I've made it my mission not to talk about it with anyone! I don't really know the story and quite frankly I haven't even really read the post I skimmed through it only because it's my responsibility as a moderator and owner of the board. Seems a lot of people are getting hurt and as much as I can be a bitch I don't like that! If I had one opinion it would be that Jennifer is her own person and should not be sucked into this. She is a moderator here at Xnations and she also happens to be a VERY smart woman! I just hope all this will be resolved quickly! I'm going to do what I said from the beginning and stay out of it! However I can't ban or ask anyone to stop posting...No one has complained to me about this thread...I'm sorry if people don't agree with my decision!

Good luck guys! :(

As I said, I will not mention Jennifer or her board nick in any further posts. The few already made cannot be changed.

And I understand your position, although I know you would feel much differently if it were you or one of your good friends that was ripped off, especially if it happened at a time in your life when money was a serious issue. I understand your position, but unfortunately in this case I don't agree with it. Theft in our community is either wrong or it isn't.

CD, It's my job as a moderator to be impartial besides do you really think this is going to change anything? I don't want to get involved period. I agree, Theft in our community is wrong, but so is shaving, plagiarism, child porn and yet it's there! As I've said previously I've only skimmed the threads (on this subject) on Xnations. How could I make an educated comment? I don't really know what the story is. That's all I've got to say on this! If this makes me the most hated person then so be it...

Please go post on another boards. I left other boards because of this sort of thing and I have joined xnations becuase people here do not carry on like with posts like you are flooding myself with. I read all that was posted on here and the other boards before I posted this here today. So save yourself the time and effort before you get flame spanked off this board.

EvilChris, FunB, Panky and other owners and mods of X-Nations

I think that the case was made by CDSmith and his cohort. If true, they should settle this in court, or in arbitration, where each could substantiate their claims and have the judge or an arbitrator decide.

On a board, NO ONE or NO BODY can arbitrate the conflict. It is NOT the place to take the conflict. It will lead to NO resolution. It is efficient to mention a conflict, to present the allegations of facts once on a board, but NOT to argue it over and over.

The plaintiffs backed themselves up in an intenable position: if for some reason Paul was genuinely not able to pay back, then, there is no true reparation they can do to the dammage done to Paul's reputation.

The board's readers are NOT arbitrator, notwithstanding what the plaintiff would like to believe (I stated why in my previous post: Paul has many satisfied customers who base their judgment and opinion on Paul's ability to deliver a good product).

If I were a mod, I would leave one post by each claimant where they presented their claims, allow one reply of the defendent for each of the claimant, delete the rest of the posts, close the thread and ban anyone or anybody attempting to re-open the subject.

my 2¢.

This is a great thread to strike off people to do business with should the opportunity ever arise, It's ONE thread mate.. get over it. No one's forcing you to read it. I'm over this myself.. so basically you're saying Xnation is a board of apologists? you can be a criminal and get away with it here because people don't care when others get ripped off? Jeez no wonder i didn't find this place sooner. Me and another person that got scammed live about 90 minutes south of you (a big factor in our getting done was probably that we were overseas here) Not that it's an enticing proposition we can meet for coffee and you can see for yourself how fake or annoying this "drama" is. Drama for drama's sake is a bad thing. This isn't fun.. I don't want to be here.. but i've been dragged into it.. I run programs now.. it's frankly embarrassing to have everything dragged up over unpaid design work. I just wish Paul would reply to me and sort this out.. it would literally take 5 seconds... I DON'T want the money owed to me... he knows that.

He damaged his own reputation by stealing. This wasn't a case of someone giving him a loan and not being able to pay it back 'cause he fell on hard times. He was paid money. He should have given the designers their cut right then. He shouldn't have spent any more than the half that was rightufully his. That's theft.

As I said, I understand your position. I will say it again..... I understand your position.

Do I really think this is going to change anything?? Jeez FB, by that thinking then nothing is worth standing up for.

I believe some good can come out of this, yes. For one thing, it may make Paul less apt to pocket someone's money in future. It may alert several designers to avoid working for Paul. It may send a message to some people that they better watch how they do business because if they rip people off there could be consequences.


As for not knowing what the story is... the designers presented much of their facts on that GFY thread. Right in that thread alone Paul was caught in several lies. It's all right there for anyone to read.

Lastly, no one is hating on you. I hope you aren't taking my replies to you in the wrong context, I'm not mad at anyone, I'm not ranting loudly at anyone, I have been perfectly lucid, calm and factual throughout this process. But you have stated your opinion, and I am certainly then going to state what I think. No hate involved, you should know that already.

To anyone reading this far..... don't hate Funbrunette, don't hate Panky.... don't hate anyone for that matter. This isn't hate-motivated, it isn't about spreading lies, it is about righting an injustice and hopefully preventing some new ones.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I have nothing to add in reply to monaro except to underline what Bhuto said.

If your allegations are right, IF, then, I agree. But stories rarely have only one side. It takes two to tango.

BTW, who are directly involved in this thing ? Are you Chadog? Does he owes YOU money ? Does he owes money to CDSmith ?

Which one of you are white knights attempting to defend a damzel in distress ?

By canadian law, if, a third person, enter an agreement, say you claim that you'll collect on a conflict between two parties, the defendant has NO obligation to talk to you because he does NOT have any contract with you. I think it's the case of CDSmith. In that case, it is the third party that is becomes liable for the debt. Read the law... :D

Anyway, as I mentionned above, this is not the place to take this conflict. It is right to expose each side of the conflict, but not to expect people to be police, judge, jury and God.

I said what I considered acceptable and non-acceptable in my above post. All third parties comments should be removed.

Feynman, my sources who are in-the-know tell me that you are Hungryman's current roommate. Is that true? You are obviously his close friend for the moment, which makes your opinion biased from the get-go.

Is my opinion bias?

The answer is actually...no. How can this be you ask? Well, I started out liking Paul as much as anyone. Even after I outted him last year for this very same issue, once he contacted me and became cooperative I began to help him, and during our call and over the past year we got along just fine. I have ICQ logs saved that prove that I made efforts to help him to get back on track with his tgp. He agreed at that time to pay back Rikki Lee.

Let me say that again so you understand what it is I'm saying here......

Paul AGREED to pay back the debt he owes to Rikki Lee. He admitted that he had done wrong and several of his messages to me and comments during our phone call showed that he was very remorseful. Tell me, why would he feel that way and say those things if he was as innocent as he would have us believe now?

Now, a year later, he is denying responsibilty of that debt. Feynman, you can stop calling this a "story" right here and now, because the allegations are couched in fact, not fiction.

And you can stop talking as if you are anything close to being a lawyer Feynman. You're not. You are attempting to cloud the issue. Assuming you are truly Paul's friend I will tell you that the worst... the WORST thing for you to do here is to encourage him to hold out until a lawsuit is launched against him. That is the last thing I want to do here. It would be so much better for Paul in the long run both financially and otherwise, to just admit to his mistakes and pay his debt. It would be far cheaper for him than having to hire a lawyer, and our community at large would then be in a position to forgive him and move on.

Once the evidence I am compiling is in front of his host and ISP, they will very likely shut his online business down. Again, this is not what I want to do, but it IS going to happen unless Paul smartens up and does what is right. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. If you don't like it, then why not be a real friend to Paul and help him see the error of his ways, instead of playing mister lawyer?

Believe me, the allegations are true. I know you're probably more inclined to believe Hungryman, because he is your friend. But lying and thievery are characteristics that are not limited to business. Is he really your roommate? Don't leave your wallet laying around, is all i'm saying.

No, i'm not directly involved in this. A friend of mine was one of the designers who was ripped off.

My personal opinion on this situation is that the money will never be paid. I don't think he'll ever make good. He simply doesn't have the common decency to square his debts. I may be wrong, but until he proves otherwise, i hope as many potential clients and designers find out about this as possible.

I'm aware that bringing something like this to the boards is not going to get the money paid back. I think CD is a little more optimistic than i am in that regard. For me, it's just about getting the truth out there and letting everyone know what a scumbag he is, so that nobody ever does business with him again.

Basically, until he pays the money back, his reputation is going to be dragged through the mud indefinitely. I'm not going to sit here and keep the threads bumped across all the various boards, but when i do see someone recommending his services, or him showing off "his" portfolio ot pick up some new clients, i'll gladly point out the threads with all the details of his scamming.