What's your take on cross sales?

[Evil Chris]

I'd like to hear from both paysite owners and affiliates alike. You may find that you fit both categories but I'd still like to know what you think of them. Especially now since there has been so much drama surrounding cross sales.

So what's your opinion on them?

[M O]

I think Cross sales are good only if the are made clear to the buyer, everything else is crap.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by M O

I think Cross sales are good only if the are made clear to the buyer, everything else is crap.

Pretty much sum it up right there.

[Cyndalie]

I think they are a necessary part of business and not just in adult, it's a valid marketing technique used in just about every industry in one form or another.

That said, disclosure and opt out is important. Shady tactics will come with conesequences.

[DragonKing]

From a Paysite /Program owner's perspective, Cross sales are good and a major way to make the bottom line. When you see programs paying out $75-$100 payouts, they are relying on these cross sales, Exit sales and member upsales to make up for this as well as member retention.

That being said, It should be done right. I dont believe in pre-checked, hidden or dodgy cross sales. That is just bad business for everyone in the long run.

From an Affiliate point of view, and so many overlook such simple math. If you are not using a revshare program, you are not making your full potential.
Why be an affiliate when you can actually be a partner?

Would I use a program that is doing cross sales? Yes if they are doing it the right way. There are even some that payout on them. I'd look for one of them first.

Thats my pre-coffee 2 cents

[Relentless]

I've actually spoken to several paying customers through my review sites specifically about cross-sales. The consensus view seems to be exactly what it should be... if a cross-sale is honestly presented to the consumer as an option they can choose or opt out of there really isn't much controversy and won't be much of a problem. The problems rise proportionate to how far away from honest the xsell goes...

Some people in the industry like to believe that the difference is in the checkbox. They think pre-checked or checked is a huge difference... but it really isn't. For example, a pre-checked xsell above the submit button in size a 21 bright red font is hardly an attempt to fool anyone into anything. On the other hand, xsells below the submit button in tiny print (or the many rumored things going on that don't appear on the join page itself are a huge problem).

What I have seen only once or twice... and believe is the BEST way to handle xsells is a simple and honest approach that will actually boost revenue, increase consumer confidence and make affiliates happy as well... a discounted 'package' purchase on a join form. In other words, instead of trying to rip off the consumer, why not actually give them something WORTH wanting. Here is how I would do an xsell on my own paysite:

1) "Thanks for becoming a member of MySiteX. As a special offer, if you check this box you may also become a member of XsellSiteY for the DISCOUNT price of $20.00 instead of the standard thirty dollar price. That's a 33% discount just for choosing to get full access to BOTH sites as a package deal!"

2) I'd pay any affiliate who sent an Xsell 10% of the xsell value on top of the sale value.

By using this approach the affiliate earns an extra $2.00, the paysite owner earns more money, the xsell site owner earns more money... and the consumer gets 2 sites instead of 1 with a $10 savings so they feel they got a benefit not a screwing.

Obviously the numbers would need to be adjusted based on site pricing etc, but many sites already have lower price point link code options so clearly this COULD be done...

[gabrio]

Originally Posted by Relentless

I've actually spoken to several paying customers through my review sites specifically about cross-sales. The consensus view seems to be exactly what it should be... if a cross-sale is honestly presented to the consumer as an option they can choose or opt out of there really isn't much controversy and won't be much of a problem. The problems rise proportionate to how far away from honest the xsell goes...

Some people in the industry like to believe that the difference is in the checkbox. They think pre-checked or checked is a huge difference... but it really isn't. For example, a pre-checked xsell above the submit button in size a 21 bright red font is hardly an attempt to fool anyone into anything. On the other hand, xsells below the submit button in tiny print (or the many rumored things going on that don't appear on the join page itself are a huge problem).

What I have seen only once or twice... and believe is the BEST way to handle xsells is a simple and honest approach that will actually boost revenue, increase consumer confidence and make affiliates happy as well... a discounted 'package' purchase on a join form. In other words, instead of trying to rip off the consumer, why not actually give them something WORTH wanting. Here is how I would do an xsell on my own paysite:

1) "Thanks for becoming a member of MySiteX. As a special offer, if you check this box you may also become a member of XsellSiteY for the DISCOUNT price of $20.00 instead of the standard thirty dollar price. That's a 33% discount just for choosing to get full access to BOTH sites as a package deal!"

2) I'd pay any affiliate who sent an Xsell 10% of the xsell value on top of the sale value.

By using this approach the affiliate earns an extra $2.00, the paysite owner earns more money, the xsell site owner earns more money... and the consumer gets 2 sites instead of 1 with a $10 savings so they feel they got a benefit not a screwing.

Obviously the numbers would need to be adjusted based on site pricing etc, but many sites already have lower price point link code options so clearly this COULD be done...

i agree with what he said... with that in mind, we don't use cross sells for our paysites.

gab

[baddog]

As stated by others before me, and most likely others in future posts/threads, cross-sales are everywhere, whether it be adult or mainstream. It is part of doing business.

That being said, it is all about the presentation. And of course, how easy is it to opt out.

[Bosco]

In my opinion, i don't care what site owners do.
As a webmaster still pushing galleries and sending traffic to site owners/programs , the only thing i care about is making money.

After all i am in the business of making money not watching how much others are making.
If some webmasters really feel like they are getting the short end of the stick then they should ask for higher payouts.

[2MuchMark]

As a paysite owner, I think cross sales are good if presented properly and clearly to the end user.

We have had only 1 product to sell up until now (live video chat) but we are soon adding a members area, and intend to use pre-checked cross sales to gather members.

Most of the backlash against pre-checked cross sales I have read about all seem to come from the fact that the pre-check is sometimes hidden just below the scroll bar or misrepresented in some way. Why would companies do this? They're just asking for chargebacks in my opinion....

Mark

[Netbilling]

HI,

I agree that xsells are part of all online sectors and I am not opposed as long as they are not one with deception. While you can make more money now ripping the surfer, you will surely pay for it in the long run.

Mitch

[Magnus3x]

Originally Posted by Netbilling

HI,

I agree that xsells are part of all online sectors and I am not opposed as long as they are not one with deception. While you can make more money now ripping the surfer, you will surely pay for it in the long run.

Mitch

That is the truth!!
"Value added" has been around for ever, yes it's a great marketing strategy and up-sells can be considered good customer service, as mentioned above easy opt outs are good business practices. Why be so deceptive that it would take a nano-microscope to see that you have pre-checked boxes offering up additional sites and charges??

[Special_K]

I am not a fan of cross-sales. I do not see it as way to build a brand. Upselling to include additional 'same brand' products is great but a cross sale, I think, is risking your own recurring revenue in attempts to get a little more at the gate.

I think a site that offers unique, exclusive content, that is well designed, easy to navigate, has an intuitive members area, and updates frequently does not need to use cross sales as a way to maximize revenue.

[Rochard]

They are fucking evil. It's like walking in to Target, spending $20 on a DVD, and coming home to find out I really bought two DVDs and my charge was $40. Then, when I go back to Target, they make me buy something I didn't want.

This should be so illegal it's not funny.

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by Special_K

I am not a fan of cross-sales. I do not see it as way to build a brand. Upselling to include additional 'same brand' products is great but a cross sale, I think, is risking your own recurring revenue in attempts to get a little more at the gate.

I think a site that offers unique, exclusive content, that is well designed, easy to navigate, has an intuitive members area, and updates frequently does not need to use cross sales as a way to maximize revenue.

I'd be willing to bet that retention on our sites is pretty close to those on an all exclusive site...we have frequent updates, but it's all third party licensed content and members areas are nothing overly fancy...

[Crak_JMan]

Now this dude was hit with a shitload of cross sales...

And he looks sad

[LeslieSharp]

Originally Posted by JMan

Now this dude was hit with a shitload of cross sales...

And he looks sad

THAT'S MY SONNY BOY!

Funny smart ass.

xoxo
Leslie

Viva La Caca Del Gato!!!

[SykkBoy]

Cross sales are a risk management business.

Are they part of our program's income? Yes they are.
That said, disclosure, opt out and MOST importantly, effective customer service are keys to having them and not losing your merchant account within the first couple months.

I would never dictate how anyone else runs their business. Programs that don't use them - great, more power to you..those who do - great, run your business how you see fit and don't let a couple people on a chat board affect how you run your business.

[TheEnforcer]

Adult Paymaster converts like motherfucker. I have no doubt the new programs they brought out do as well.

[Special_K]

SykKboy:
I don't doubt it and I am not saying all exclusive is the only way. You obviously care what your members see and take time in buying content and are diligent about updates and it shows in your retention. I think you are the exception. APM too - they were a good part of my cash flow years ago and like TheEnforcer said they convert like a mothafucker.

[thruma]

I think cross sales have to be viewed by the sponsor in a different way. If you see it as a way to add extra value to the sign-up that a customer just made then there is nothing wrong with it.

Hey mister customer. thanks for signing up to this great collection of porn but I want to offer you some more value right now! ***pitch goes here***
Of course it needs to be real value

[Evil Chris]

Certainly some good points of view in here.
Mine fall in line with transparency and an up front offer. If those criteria are met, they I can only say that the cross sale is a good, profitable device.

[dyonisus]

cross sells and upsells are apart of the marketing business model. I agree with trying to make a sale on the heels of another sale providing that it is a purchase the consumer is completely aware they are making.

It is the shady shady practices that causes this type of promtion to come under scrutiny.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by dyonisus

cross sells and upsells are apart of the marketing business model. I agree with trying to make a sale on the heels of another sale providing that it is a purchase the consumer is completely aware they are making.

It is the shady shady practices that causes this type of promtion to come under scrutiny.

Your on crack. Seriously, put down the crack pipe.

I went out for pizza earlier this year, and the bill came out to $50. I got the bill, put in $0 for a tip, total charge $50, and I left cash for a tip. The next day I discovered that $65 was charged to my card. Listen carefully here: I signed off on a bill that said $50. It said "grand total: $50" It did not say "$50 plus whatever you so fucking decide to charge me."

Don't give me no shit about the pizza place having a gratituity charge. If that was the case, it should have been on the bill and the final bill that I signed off on should have read "$15 gratituity plus $50 = grand total $65."

You bet your fucking ass I went in the following day and complained to the manager. I could care less about $15, but the idea that a seventeen year old high school kid can charge my credit card at will scares the fuck out of me (it was a debit card really). This is fraud and this is theft, plain and simple. I wouldn't be surprised if that kid got fired, and they are lucky I didn't complain to Visa because they can loose their processing and that would pretty much put them out of business.

When I go to target or whatever and use my credit card / debit card, the screen says "your total is $24.95". It doesn't say "Your total is $24.95 and you also agree to pay $39.95 for a service contract until the end of your life".

This is bullshit. This is fraud and theft. And it's fucking all of us in the ass because every person who agrees to pay $24.95 and then gets hit with $180 in charges isn't going to pull out their credit card again.

[gabrio]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Your on crack. Seriously, put down the crack pipe.

I went out for pizza earlier this year, and the bill came out to $50. I got the bill, put in $0 for a tip, total charge $50, and I left cash for a tip. The next day I discovered that $65 was charged to my card. Listen carefully here: I signed off on a bill that said $50. It said "grand total: $50" It did not say "$50 plus whatever you so fucking decide to charge me."

Don't give me no shit about the pizza place having a gratituity charge. If that was the case, it should have been on the bill and the final bill that I signed off on should have read "$15 gratituity plus $50 = grand total $65."

You bet your fucking ass I went in the following day and complained to the manager. I could care less about $15, but the idea that a seventeen year old high school kid can charge my credit card at will scares the fuck out of me (it was a debit card really). This is fraud and this is theft, plain and simple. I wouldn't be surprised if that kid got fired, and they are lucky I didn't complain to Visa because they can loose their processing and that would pretty much put them out of business.

When I go to target or whatever and use my credit card / debit card, the screen says "your total is $24.95". It doesn't say "Your total is $24.95 and you also agree to pay $39.95 for a service contract until the end of your life".

This is bullshit. This is fraud and theft. And it's fucking all of us in the ass because every person who agrees to pay $24.95 and then gets hit with $180 in charges isn't going to pull out their credit card again.

TOTALLY agree with that