America Used To Be Really Goddamn Awesome

SFS · 09-29-2007, 12:55 AM

I've been captivated by Ken Burns' The War this week and it struck me how awesome America used to be.

The prevailing attitude of the ladies and gentlemen featured in Burns' film, and by proxy all Americans of that era, was that if we had to fight a war, we had better do it right. Clearly and with little dissent, we had to fight that war, and without fail, Americans rallied together to do it really damn well.

People from every corner of the nation selflessly pooled their resources for the great cause of World War II, and I'm not sure about this one, but I don't think President Roosevelt ever once asked the country to sacrifice by going to the mall. And I'm pretty sure he didn't outsource the construction of tanks, Flying Fortresses, Hellcats and Thunderbolts to Mexico and China. That's a hell of a thing by today's standards, isn't it?

We've fallen so far from what we used to be, even as recently as thirty years ago when the comparatively liberal president Richard Nixon opened a dialogue with Red China, whilst Mao supplied arms to North Vietnam. One day long ago, it was okay to wish for an end to a war, without being accused of hating the soldiers who were fighting it. It was once a given that socialized public education, police, fire departments, roads, parks, national defense and the constitutionally mandated General Welfare & Domestic Tranquility were simply a part of the American way of life and would always be there.

And when our nation had to go to war, we would be there for her.

Conversely, when we crumble to the pressure of our reactionary and authoritarian elements, we get Japanese internment camps, the rise of the military industrial complex, and men turned away from service due to the color of their skin. Some of our greatest failures have been conceived when our irrationality, fear and lust for power overrule our traditional American ideals -- even during our finest hours as a nation.

And now, 50 years later, in our lives and times, we get President George W. Bush and Vice President Richard B. Cheney.

The Bush Years have been a monumental, cataclysmic failure on most fronts due to its inattention to what has, historically, made American great. The president and his thinning ranks of fawn-eyed Hannities don't understand this yet. They don't understand it mostly because they're too ignorant -- blinded by sloganeering -- to the very basic reality that Bush Republican style government, in practice, is about as successful and practical as a paper condom. It always has been.

Nowhere is this more apparent than when they compare the Bush Wars to World War II. It's a desperate notion, one that seeks to conflate our current president with greatness he doesn't deserve and an historical legacy he will never achieve. It's also meant to inflate our current "enemies" to Hitler status, and thus proving the case for war.

The comparison is pure horseshit. (Say nothing of the fact that it elevates Bin Laden or the late Saddam or the present Ahmadinejad to a level of villainy they also don't deserve. It's like saying a doofus villain like Solomon Grundy is the next Lex Luthor. I'm sure they appreciate being granted superpowers enough to take over the world, though.)

If it's so fucking important to stay in Iraq, and if it's so fucking important to invade Iran -- and if it's so fucking important to wiretap your phones and read your mail, and to shit all over your constitutional rights and the Geneva Conventions -- and all of it is part of a larger World War II style conflict, then why aren't the Bushies taking their metaphors seriously by demanding the sacrifices of World War II?

Did President Roosevelt cut taxes or ask veterans to pay higher deductibles? Did President Roosevelt outsource the army by hiring no-bid corporate mercenaries?

From the bombing of Pearl Harbor to the surrender of Japan, automobile manufacturers stopped making cars in lieu of manufacturing hardware for the war effort. Can you imagine, among all of the scrap metal drives -- the rationing of everything from gasoline to frying pan fat -- if Roosevelt had allowed SUV drivers to receive tax breaks in which sheer vehicular tonnage was rewarded at the peril of even one American G.I.?

If the quintessential symbol of the American character in World War II was Rosie The Riveter, the poster for the Bush Wars has to be that of an SUV driver receiving a tax break while sucking down enough Saudi oil to drive to a mall where he's expected to buy lead-tainted crapola manufactured overseas -- a yellow ribbon hypocrite magnet dangling just above his exhaust pipe and several inches from a fading W04 sticker. The caption: "The Bush Patriot Says: 'I'm On It, Mr. President!'"

The Bushies can't possibly take their own World War II metaphor seriously because they don't truly believe in the comparison.

They know, as you and I do, that these wars have little to do with stopping a new Hitler. If we peel back the layers -- if you look at what truly drives little childish men like Hannity and Cheney and Kristol, you'll find that it has little to do with liberating nations from an occupying Nazi force and ending a brutal holocaust. Beneath the pasty white surface of a typical Bush Republican you'll find greed, fear, ignorance, anger and a basic lack of understanding of America's place on the world stage. They're traits that drive nations into unnecessary wars. They're also traits that often breed cowardice.

To wit... Those of you demanding a war in Iran, I have one question for you. And no, I'm not going to employ the tired military service argument, but I must ask you this: what is the very minimum you're doing right now to prepare for your war? Are you refusing to support further tax cuts or pumping less "Islamofascist" oil into your SUV tank?

You're probably not doing anything because all you're expected to do is to say that you support the troops (what does that mean in practice?). And as long as you don't oppose the president as he dismantles the Constitution in favor of a corporate police state, then you've contributed to your president's war effort. That's the Bush Republican way. Oh, and to shop. You have go to Disneyland and buy shit you don't need at the mall (what the fuck is a Webkinz?).

How will the Ken Burns of the future portray the Bush Wars? I imagine that a large part of a future documentary about these times will detail what Rick Perlstein sublimely referred to this week as the destruction of America's character.

Whoever the future Ken Burns might be (hopefully, it'll be Ken Burns), he or she will have to dig deep into the destruction of our national character and detail the stories of torture and secret detention facilities; outsourced corporate thugs murdering foreign civilians; government scare tactics without substance -- it'll be a documentary in part about your non-military friends and family who supported this president's war but who sacrificed nothing in its execution.

So here we are in late 2007. The president believes that history will vindicate his efforts to destroy the American character and to bring about the ascendancy of neo-conservatism. After all, he fancies himself the new McKinley -- or is it George Washington? Is he Lincoln this week or Truman? Is he still fighting the Vietnam War or is it World War II? Korea or the Civil War? Goddamn him and his marble-mouthed horseshit. That's exactly why it has to be up to you and me to write the history -- the truth -- now. It won't be a proud endeavor because there has been little to be proud of, but we have to make sure that future Americans know exactly what happened in the Bush Years and in the Bush Wars.

The pendulum keeps swinging further to the right and seldom in our generation has it swung all the way back. When a president can look you in the eye and say he's going to veto healthcare for children, and his people are fine with that; and when the same sales pitch for Iraq is being employed for Iran -- and it's working, what else can you say about that fucking pendulum?

12clicks · 10-01-2007, 06:51 AM

you're an idiot. I'd point out the idiocy but since you merely posted someone else's idiot thoughts, I'll merely ridicule you

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFS

I've been captivated by Ken Burns' The War this week and it struck me how awesome America used to be.

The prevailing attitude of the ladies and gentlemen featured in Burns' film, and by proxy all Americans of that era, was that if we had to fight a war, we had better do it right. Clearly and with little dissent, we had to fight that war, and without fail, Americans rallied together to do it really damn well.

People from every corner of the nation selflessly pooled their resources for the great cause of World War II, and I'm not sure about this one, but I don't think President Roosevelt ever once asked the country to sacrifice by going to the mall. And I'm pretty sure he didn't outsource the construction of tanks, Flying Fortresses, Hellcats and Thunderbolts to Mexico and China. That's a hell of a thing by today's standards, isn't it?

We've fallen so far from what we used to be, even as recently as thirty years ago when the comparatively liberal president Richard Nixon opened a dialogue with Red China, whilst Mao supplied arms to North Vietnam. One day long ago, it was okay to wish for an end to a war, without being accused of hating the soldiers who were fighting it. It was once a given that socialized public education, police, fire departments, roads, parks, national defense and the constitutionally mandated General Welfare & Domestic Tranquility were simply a part of the American way of life and would always be there.

And when our nation had to go to war, we would be there for her.

Conversely, when we crumble to the pressure of our reactionary and authoritarian elements, we get Japanese internment camps, the rise of the military industrial complex, and men turned away from service due to the color of their skin. Some of our greatest failures have been conceived when our irrationality, fear and lust for power overrule our traditional American ideals -- even during our finest hours as a nation.

And now, 50 years later, in our lives and times, we get President George W. Bush and Vice President Richard B. Cheney.

The Bush Years have been a monumental, cataclysmic failure on most fronts due to its inattention to what has, historically, made American great. The president and his thinning ranks of fawn-eyed Hannities don't understand this yet. They don't understand it mostly because they're too ignorant -- blinded by sloganeering -- to the very basic reality that Bush Republican style government, in practice, is about as successful and practical as a paper condom. It always has been.

Nowhere is this more apparent than when they compare the Bush Wars to World War II. It's a desperate notion, one that seeks to conflate our current president with greatness he doesn't deserve and an historical legacy he will never achieve. It's also meant to inflate our current "enemies" to Hitler status, and thus proving the case for war.

The comparison is pure horseshit. (Say nothing of the fact that it elevates Bin Laden or the late Saddam or the present Ahmadinejad to a level of villainy they also don't deserve. It's like saying a doofus villain like Solomon Grundy is the next Lex Luthor. I'm sure they appreciate being granted superpowers enough to take over the world, though.)

If it's so fucking important to stay in Iraq, and if it's so fucking important to invade Iran -- and if it's so fucking important to wiretap your phones and read your mail, and to shit all over your constitutional rights and the Geneva Conventions -- and all of it is part of a larger World War II style conflict, then why aren't the Bushies taking their metaphors seriously by demanding the sacrifices of World War II?

Did President Roosevelt cut taxes or ask veterans to pay higher deductibles? Did President Roosevelt outsource the army by hiring no-bid corporate mercenaries?

From the bombing of Pearl Harbor to the surrender of Japan, automobile manufacturers stopped making cars in lieu of manufacturing hardware for the war effort. Can you imagine, among all of the scrap metal drives -- the rationing of everything from gasoline to frying pan fat -- if Roosevelt had allowed SUV drivers to receive tax breaks in which sheer vehicular tonnage was rewarded at the peril of even one American G.I.?

If the quintessential symbol of the American character in World War II was Rosie The Riveter, the poster for the Bush Wars has to be that of an SUV driver receiving a tax break while sucking down enough Saudi oil to drive to a mall where he's expected to buy lead-tainted crapola manufactured overseas -- a yellow ribbon hypocrite magnet dangling just above his exhaust pipe and several inches from a fading W04 sticker. The caption: "The Bush Patriot Says: 'I'm On It, Mr. President!'"

The Bushies can't possibly take their own World War II metaphor seriously because they don't truly believe in the comparison.

They know, as you and I do, that these wars have little to do with stopping a new Hitler. If we peel back the layers -- if you look at what truly drives little childish men like Hannity and Cheney and Kristol, you'll find that it has little to do with liberating nations from an occupying Nazi force and ending a brutal holocaust. Beneath the pasty white surface of a typical Bush Republican you'll find greed, fear, ignorance, anger and a basic lack of understanding of America's place on the world stage. They're traits that drive nations into unnecessary wars. They're also traits that often breed cowardice.

To wit... Those of you demanding a war in Iran, I have one question for you. And no, I'm not going to employ the tired military service argument, but I must ask you this: what is the very minimum you're doing right now to prepare for your war? Are you refusing to support further tax cuts or pumping less "Islamofascist" oil into your SUV tank?

You're probably not doing anything because all you're expected to do is to say that you support the troops (what does that mean in practice?). And as long as you don't oppose the president as he dismantles the Constitution in favor of a corporate police state, then you've contributed to your president's war effort. That's the Bush Republican way. Oh, and to shop. You have go to Disneyland and buy shit you don't need at the mall (what the fuck is a Webkinz?).

How will the Ken Burns of the future portray the Bush Wars? I imagine that a large part of a future documentary about these times will detail what Rick Perlstein sublimely referred to this week as the destruction of America's character.

Whoever the future Ken Burns might be (hopefully, it'll be Ken Burns), he or she will have to dig deep into the destruction of our national character and detail the stories of torture and secret detention facilities; outsourced corporate thugs murdering foreign civilians; government scare tactics without substance -- it'll be a documentary in part about your non-military friends and family who supported this president's war but who sacrificed nothing in its execution.

So here we are in late 2007. The president believes that history will vindicate his efforts to destroy the American character and to bring about the ascendancy of neo-conservatism. After all, he fancies himself the new McKinley -- or is it George Washington? Is he Lincoln this week or Truman? Is he still fighting the Vietnam War or is it World War II? Korea or the Civil War? Goddamn him and his marble-mouthed horseshit. That's exactly why it has to be up to you and me to write the history -- the truth -- now. It won't be a proud endeavor because there has been little to be proud of, but we have to make sure that future Americans know exactly what happened in the Bush Years and in the Bush Wars.

The pendulum keeps swinging further to the right and seldom in our generation has it swung all the way back. When a president can look you in the eye and say he's going to veto healthcare for children, and his people are fine with that; and when the same sales pitch for Iraq is being employed for Iran -- and it's working, what else can you say about that fucking pendulum?

rhetorical · 10-01-2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

you're an idiot. I'd point out the idiocy but since you merely posted someone else's idiot thoughts, I'll merely ridicule you

sigh....the uninformed radical right fires from the hip....

12clicks · 10-01-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhetorical

sigh....the uninformed radical right fires from the hip....

hahaha, anytime you'd like to be schooled, child, you let me know.

rhetorical · 10-01-2007, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

hahaha, anytime you'd like to be schooled, child, you let me know.

So you could possibly recommend someone? If you know someone who is qualified, please let me know. LMAO

Evil Chris · 10-01-2007, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFS

You're probably not doing anything because all you're expected to do is to say that you support the troops (what does that mean in practice?). And as long as you don't oppose the president as he dismantles the Constitution in favor of a corporate police state, then you've contributed to your president's war effort. That's the Bush Republican way. Oh, and to shop. You have go to Disneyland and buy shit you don't need at the mall.

This paragraph made sense to me. I'm not so young that I don't know how Americans and Canadians changed their ways of life to support the war effort during WWII. I don't see any of this happening in the USA right now.

I think the rest of the world right now has just put Bush on "ignore" and are patiently awaiting November 2008, hoping that the American people will finally notice how fucked up their administration has been for the past 8 years and do something about it.

(*note: Like 12clicks, I would have liked to have seen a credit to this thread too. So if anyone has it, please post it.)

SFS · 10-01-2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

This paragraph made sense to me. I'm not so young that I don't know how Americans and Canadians changed their ways of life to support the war effort during WWII. I don't see any of this happening in the USA right now.

I think the rest of the world right now has just put Bush on "ignore" and are patiently awaiting November 2008, hoping that the American people will finally notice how fucked up their administration has been for the past 8 years and do something about it.

Agreed, those of us who are old enough to remember (I am 46). Most of our 20-30 somethings here may be too young, they were enjoying the innocence of childhood.

The way things are going with the 2008 campaign, im not sure theres really anyone with all of our true interests at heart. The Dems keep dropping the ball on issues. Did you know that Pelosi's husband is a contractor and is over in Iraq? WTF, i have to look into this further. Im also not pleased that Clinton signed the Kyl/Lieberman act. This is all insane. Obama has great ideas but is too inexperienced, you cant just change everything without the entire Infrastructure falling apart.
Those like Biden, and Paul who i think are the smartest among them all, will simply never get enough votes to make a difference. The neo-con mainstream media wont give them enough attention. There are powers that be who truly run this country and they have a plan: To bankrupt America while stealing all the oil profits of other nations. Well, thats where the oil is and we need it to maintain our way of life. A true double edge sword for all of us.

From:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-...t_b_66635.html

The Definition of Insanity

Someone (either Ben Franklin or Albert Einstein) once said, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." Yet, congressional Democrats want American voters to subscribe to this very form of insanity when it comes to the Iraq War.

On Bill Maher's HBO show this weekend, Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-IL) first pushed the Innocent Bystander Fable, then, when cornered, said the only way to end the war is to elect more Democrats and a Democratic president.
Now think about that for just a second. We elected Democrats in 2006 to end the war. They are now taking to the television airwaves to brag about their refusal to use the power they have to end the war - the constitutional power of the purse. And yet, we are expected to believe the real way to end the war is to elect more Democrats. Why should anyone believe simply electing more Democrats is going to end the war? Where is there any proof that that would help end the war? Or do Democratic leaders think we are so stupid and so insane that we will believe this self-serving line of reasoning without any shred of evidence? This is the definition of political insanity: Electing the same candidates over and over and over again and expecting different results.

Getting more Democrats in Congress would probably mean a better chance to pass progressive legislation. I think electing more Democrats to Congress is an important goal in the general sense.

But as it relates specifically to the Iraq War, Democrats have the power to end the war right now if they wanted to. They just don't want to take the political risk to do so - and there's no reason to think that with more Democrats they would be any more inclined to take those risks in the future (Remember - Richard Nixon campaigned in 1968 on a promise to end the war - and he only followed through many years later). The only way they are going to end the war is if they are forced to end the war, under threat of being thrown out of office. And to argue otherwise is to be blinded by Partisan War Syndrome.

Cyndalie · 10-01-2007, 10:09 AM

The president and his thinning ranks of fawn-eyed Hannities don't understand this yet.

WTF is a Hannities?

They don't understand it mostly because they're too ignorant -- blinded by sloganeering -- to the very basic reality that Bush Republican style government, in practice, is about as successful and practical as a paper condom.

ok I'll agree with that.

also What the fuck is a Bushie?

Here's the source on that http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-ce...y_b_66370.html

""America Used To Be Really Goddamn Awesome."

It still is. Just ask any of the 15,000,000 illegal aliens.""
hahah great comment

.

Mister E · 10-01-2007, 10:18 AM

The attendant debate in this post IS proof America is a great nation. We can disagree, but share a passion for Liberty.

Evil C is dead on too when he sees the lack of support in comparison to what once was. It seems that anything too demanding for us results in a conspiracy theory.

I have a 15-year-old son who lives near Montreal and is in the Army Cadets. He is a world-class musician determined as he puts it "to also be a good citizen."

It took me awhile but I am proud of him and a little jealous too!
I would hate to see the Troops desert Iraq, leaving it in the hands of War Lords. A huge price has been paid but you can't get off the field before the whistle blows.

I once was very involved with a Palestinian woman. We were students at a University in Toronto. She was *removed* from Canadian soil by relatives hell-bent on maintaining the 'purity of her race.'

I always think of her when I hear talk of Shari Law yet support a Palestinian State, the right for Israel to defend herself and the obligation WE MUST SHARE to support the troops, honour the sacrifices paid and avoid simplifying the complexity that is the Body Politic.

rhetorical · 10-01-2007, 12:02 PM

I love Ken Burns' film making, but I caught most of one episode of "The War" and it I kinda thought it should have been called "The American War". Now maybe he paid attention to the fact that it was a world war in other episodes. Anyone care to comment on this?

SFS · 10-01-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhetorical

I love Ken Burns' film making, but I caught most of one episode of "The War" and it I kinda thought it should have been called "The American War". Now maybe he paid attention to the fact that it was a world war in other episodes. Anyone care to comment on this?

Its a great film for those with intellect, i am glad you enjoyed it. I hope others will watch it. I also thought it had American viewpoints attached, but ya'know its his point of view and back then wars were truly world wide, not narrow like Bushies little war thats killing all of our children needlessly.

SFS · 10-01-2007, 03:12 PM

Thank you Cyn, yes thats where i got the post from and forgot to give the credit to the writer.

Rhetorical and others, thanks for being part of a healthy debate.

Just ignore the bad mouth ignorant idiots. Not worth your time or energy.

They probably treat their clients the same way if offered an opinion that goes against their viewpoints.

I would never deal with a company that speaks to its fellow webmasters that way.. Politically or otherwise.

12clicks · 10-01-2007, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFS

I would never deal with a company that speaks to its fellow webmasters that way.. Politically or otherwise.

how wonderful for you. be sure to put that on your paper hat when you start your next job.
I'm generally looking for intelligent people to do busienss with.
cutting and pasting someone else's thoughts as your own doesn't impress me. cutting and posting some political hack's thoughts impresses me even less.

rhetorical · 10-01-2007, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFS

Thank you Cyn, yes thats where i got the post from and forgot to give the credit to the writer.

Rhetorical and others, thanks for being part of a healthy debate.

Just ignore the bad mouth ignorant idiots. Not worth your time or energy.

They probably treat their clients the same way if offered an opinion that goes against their viewpoints.

I would never deal with a company that speaks to its fellow webmasters that way.. Politically or otherwise.

Pay no attention to 12 clicks. A few years ago he was all over the boards blathering about how porn was dead and he was a major success in "mainstream". Apparently not, he is trying hard to get back into porn again. So consider the source. He also supported Bush's war right from the get go and when it all went south, he went silent. He is a major hot air merchant.

rhetorical · 10-01-2007, 06:22 PM

BTW, 12clicks. I was just funnin with ya to see if the old piss and vinegar was as sharp as ever. LOL

12clicks · 10-01-2007, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhetorical

BTW, 12clicks. I was just funnin with ya to see if the old piss and vinegar was as sharp as ever. LOL

who cares?

rhetorical · 10-01-2007, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

who cares?

well apparently you are not. CYA.

Evil Chris · 10-01-2007, 07:08 PM

Awesome or no... I just wish their dollar would bounce back in a very big way.

rhetorical · 10-01-2007, 07:27 PM

If you are a Canadian exporter doing business in USD, then you have seen your effective income sink in a rather large way. It is most noticeable when you change large amounts at the bank, and get less.....now that sucks. The price we pay for having a good economy.