Bumfights Busted!

twinkley · 09-25-2002, 09:26 AM

Although I don't normally agree with the police, this story made my morning!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...e_bumfights_dc

I am soooo happy that someone is doing something about these idiots since the people in our industry apparently thought this was okay for content for paysites.

I have been publicly against bumfights since I saw a couple of the producers start it up in Vancouver with some innocent guy on the street. I will NEVER understand how the people in this industry (not all, but a lot) thought that it would be okay, even profitable, to make money of the HARM of innocent people. In my mind, this is no different than a girl getting beat up/raped/forced to do stuff that wasnt in the agreement, just because she is getting paid..

Oh yeah, one more thing before I end my little rant (this has had me worked up for quite a while).....

Who decided it would be a good idea to mix sex and violence? The government is already breathing down our backs about porn being bad, addictive, not safe as to cause men to hurt women etc etc - so WHY would you want to ADD direct violence to it? Not kinky sexy pseudo violence, but real, harsh, cold, violence.

I just dont get it.... I do hope that the police will shut this down. I dont want to see these guys go to Jail, I just want them to stop this, and if we wont - then I guess the police should.

I still just dont understand why WE as a community accepted this.... Sometimes I tihnk we make the governments case for them....

twinkley

PM5K · 09-25-2002, 10:24 AM

Why is it that the people from JackAss don't get arrested? The hurt themselves all the time and cause public disturbances on a regular basis, and it's funny as shit! How did the Ultimate Fighting Championship become such a big business? They have ring girls wearing next to nothing, and guys beating the living shit out of each other. Now that's mixing Sex and Violence, and the public as a whole accepts it. The only reason these guys got busted was because they work in the adult entertainment industry, and they were making ALOT of money off of it... if it wasn't for the Porn connection, then they probably wouldn't have been bothered to much.

BTW: I think BumFights is funnier than hell...

modF · 09-25-2002, 10:54 AM

To play the devils advocate.

Wrestling (WWE) is fine because it is scripted though right?_ I mean we are still mixing sex and violence, just not hardcore._ Now I have not watched in years, but I remember they had "lose your top" matches with women and such._

PM5K · 09-25-2002, 10:58 AM

another point being this, I've seen porn stars escort Wrestlers to the ring. Everyone knows they do Hard-Core, so there ya go, sex and Violence...

baddog · 09-25-2002, 11:30 AM

so bumfights is real? I kind of figured it was like bangbus

I think I will reserve my opinion to the findings of the court. just because you are arrested, or some crackhead says you did something, does not mean you did it

Evil Chris · 09-25-2002, 11:48 AM

It sounds as though the "bums" as it were... are real street people who have nothing, and therefore are easily influenced by the promise of cash, food, booze, or a hotel room for the night.
I agree with you Twinkley, it's not right.
I was under the impression that these feeds were entirely staged, with actors playing out roles, just as we see in the WWE for example.

twinkley · 09-25-2002, 12:35 PM

Thanks Chris,

You made my point for me. There is a huge difference in an actress getting paid to walk an actor (wrestler) down an aisle in an itty bitty bikini, and taking advantage of an innocent persons misfortune by goading them into fighting or doing stupid shit that could hurt them.

Did you read the article? The threatened these people not to talk - they KNEW what they were doing was wrong! One guy got his leg broken!! Did he sign up for this? NO! I SAW THEM FILMING this in Vancouver. You wanna know how they get the bums to agree? They goad them into it - they harass them and taunt them and pick at them until they take a swing or walk away.

Would it be different in your eyes if it was a woman they were doing this to? If someone walked up to your girlfriend and started harrassing her trying to get her to do something stupid - would you think it was funny then? If someone came up to you and started picking a fight with you and you DIDNT HAVE ANYWHERE TO GO would you think it was funny then? NO, I imagine not. How about a kid? Your kid? Parents get bent out of shape if their kids get into fights readily - much less goaded into it.

As for Jackass - well, the name says it all. BUT the difference even here is these idiots are doing it TO THEMSELVES. They are not intentionally hurting innocent people and they are not getting paid to do it.

The fact of the matter is, if you are taking advantage of an innocent person - you are in the WRONG. Be it a model, a child, an animal, or a bum. If someone was kicking the shit outta a puppy and taping it, would you put it up on your PORN site?? No, I dont think so.

I still have yet to see whats so funny about this....

twinkley

twinkley · 09-25-2002, 12:36 PM

Baddog,

If I hadnt seen it with my very own eyes in Vancouver, I would say the same thing. But I did, and it was horrible. One of the truely bad experiences I've had at any show.

twinkley

baddog · 09-25-2002, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by twinkley
Did you read the article? The threatened these people not to talk - they KNEW what they were doing was wrong! One guy got his leg broken!! Did he sign up for this? NO! I SAW THEM FILMING this in Vancouver. You wanna know how they get the bums to agree? They goad them into it - they harass them and taunt them and pick at them until they take a swing or walk away.

yes, I read it, and I have read other police reports, where I was there, and the story told had nothing in common with the facts.

journalism. lawsuits. all kinds of factors come into play. I do not know what you saw in Canada, but you know how those Canadians are

the facts of this story all took place in Southern California. Maybe what they say is true, maybe it is not. Like I said before, or meant to, I will reserve judgment of this issue till all the facts are laid out in a court of law.

Innocent until proven guilty is how we are supposed to do it down here.

twinkley · 09-25-2002, 01:42 PM

I am not sure how Canadians come into all this...

It was the same people - not the canadians. This was at a webmaster show and were american webmasters doing it.

This isnt about journalism, lawyers, lawsuits or anything else. This is what I saw with my own eyes! Its not like I am just going off on what someone who heard it from someone who heard it from the source told me - I was there! I saw it happening!

I am an american and I firmly believe in inoocent until proven guilty 100%

BUT

I know these foolz are guilty - I saw it happen with my own 2 eyes! Not heresay, not rumors, not journalism. I was there, with a group of webmasters when a certain webmaster started harrassing a bum while another filmed it. By the time it took me to walk 30 feet away, they were pushing and shoving the guy to get him to fight.

If it was a kid this was happening to, you would be shocked an appalled because, well, a kid is defensless - well, so is a bum!

twinkley

09-25-2002, 01:57 PM

When I first saw bumfights, I thought it was kind of funny. Watching bunch of guys beating hte crap out of each other. Then when I was broght the dvd from the past show and watched it, my opinion changed. Seeing the parts where they run up on bums while they are sleeping and tieing them up and duck taping them, that's just wrong.

The footage of the kid that look like they are my age, in my opinion, are just dumbasses that are part of a dumb fight club or something, you can tell they are not bums. Its nice to see these guys finally got caught and are in jail. Maybe they'll make a new video called jailfights and will be footage of them getting their asses kicked by big guys named Bubba!

As for Jackass, they do it to themselves. I think that's funny as hell. I love Jackass.

Darin · 09-25-2002, 03:13 PM

I agree with Twinkly on all points.

... just like the dumbass mom who was beating her kid and got caught. I don't need a judge or anymore evidence than the video the nation saw to know that bitch needs to be put away.

ric knows nina · 09-25-2002, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by twinkley
Thanks Chris,

You made my point for me. There is a huge difference in an actress getting paid to walk an actor (wrestler) down an aisle in an itty bitty bikini, and taking advantage of an innocent persons misfortune by goading them into fighting or doing stupid shit that could hurt them.

Did you read the article? The threatened these people not to talk - they KNEW what they were doing was wrong! One guy got his leg broken!! Did he sign up for this? NO! I SAW THEM FILMING this in Vancouver. You wanna know how they get the bums to agree? They goad them into it - they harass them and taunt them and pick at them until they take a swing or walk away.

Would it be different in your eyes if it was a woman they were doing this to? If someone walked up to your girlfriend and started harrassing her trying to get her to do something stupid - would you think it was funny then? If someone came up to you and started picking a fight with you and you DIDNT HAVE ANYWHERE TO GO would you think it was funny then? NO, I imagine not. How about a kid? Your kid? Parents get bent out of shape if their kids get into fights readily - much less goaded into it.

As for Jackass - well, the name says it all. BUT the difference even here is these idiots are doing it TO THEMSELVES. They are not intentionally hurting innocent people and they are not getting paid to do it.

The fact of the matter is, if you are taking advantage of an innocent person - you are in the WRONG. Be it a model, a child, an animal, or a bum. If someone was kicking the shit outta a puppy and taping it, would you put it up on your PORN site?? No, I dont think so.

I still have yet to see whats so funny about this....

twinkley

right on Twinkley

Funbrunette · 09-25-2002, 10:08 PM

What's Bumfights???....LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

Never really watched it, I thought it was pretty stupid!

09-25-2002, 10:19 PM

I actually have a tshirt and the dvd from the show. After watching the movie...I dont think I'll be wearing that shirt...at least not in public.
Could use it as a rag to dry my car off with.

Vid Vicious · 09-25-2002, 10:27 PM

Twinley you put a hole new perspective on this for me ... Thank you ...

09-25-2002, 10:34 PM

After watching the dvd and changing my view when I saw how they attacked them sleeping, I though it would be great to pay some bums to run into the show, tackle the guys that filmed it, duck tape them, tie them up...show THEM how it feels. I thought that would be great.

baddog · 09-26-2002, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by twinkley
I am not sure how Canadians come into all this...

It was the same people - not the canadians. This was at a webmaster show and were american webmasters doing it.

This isnt about journalism, lawyers, lawsuits or anything else. This is what I saw with my own eyes! Its not like I am just going off on what someone who heard it from someone who heard it from the source told me - I was there! I saw it happening!

Twinkley. . . .first off, the Canadian comment was sarcasm, please notice the

following "but you know how those Canadians are" What you saw occured in Canada, so that is how they got into it. But as I said, it was sarcasm. I figured the

would make that obvious.

When I say it is about journalism, lawsuits, and other factors I am not talking about what you saw. I am talking about the article. Did you see the events in La Mesa? Did you see the guy in the article break his leg? I don't think so. Whatever you saw in Canada happened in Canada.

Do you have any idea the number of webmasters that have come to me inquiring about who they should report BangBus to? They are convinced that these chicks are being forced into sex in order to get back into town.

I am not about to convict someone based on a report made by someone that stands to make some very large dollars if a jury believes him. You really think there is no potential civil action pending?

I am going to go out on a limb here. If I was representing the defendants I would plea them down to a misdemeanor where they would be allowed to plead no contest. That way the conviction stands, and they probably end up with probation. The no contest plea does not allow the conviction to be used against them in any pending civil action, which I would dare say puts them at a much higher risk.

Evil Chris · 09-26-2002, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by baddog
I am not about to convict someone based on a report made by someone that stands to make some very large dollars if a jury believes him. You really think there is no potential civil action pending?

Do you *really* think that the only evidence the people have is this report? No way!

I'm still in a bit of shock. I had no idea that bumfights was not a staged form of entertainment.

09-26-2002, 12:33 AM

Yeah, by watching the video, you can tell its not staged. At least that's my opinion. And I see what you are saying baddog but I say throw em in jail. If someone ran up on me, tied me up, ducktaped my head....I'd say that's assault. Again, just my opinion.

And there was a part in the video where one bum broken his ankle and was in a cast after. Not sure if that is what they are talking about with the broken leg or not.

baddog · 09-26-2002, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Evil Chris

Do you *really* think that the only evidence the people have is this report? No way!

I do not know what evidence they have, neither do you. That is my point.

I will reserve judgment for after the evidence has been provided to a court of law, rather than the court of public opinion, or trial by the press.

Having been a defendant several times, I have come to learn that an arrest warrant is a long ways from a conviction.

Please notice the headline, and the first few words of the article, "Two men who allegedly paid street people to fight each other. . . " The word allegedly stands out to me. It should to you too.

Just my $.02 USD

twinkley · 09-26-2002, 09:45 AM

BadDog,

My apologies for not seeing your sarcasm. This topic has gotten me very riled up all over again. (i was furious after vancouver and was told to keep quiet as not to offend)

You are right in saying that I dont know what happened in CA. I don't. I only have the actions of the same group of people in another place doing the same thing.

As for the word "allegedly" in the article. As a journalist (to cover his own ass) he MUST put this in because we do live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty. I totally understand this.

As for the webmasters asking who to report bangbus to? Good for them! They are *wondering* if something bad is going on there and calling them on it. I dont blame them. I think they should have been pointed in the direction of the people producing it so they could explain that the product is staged. Just like Pythons I dream or teenie or chicktrick. Its a good show, and thats what people are paying for - a show.

I think MORE webmasters should question possibly harmful content before just throwing it up on their sites. There were a whole lot of people who "thought" bumfights was staged. When asked, I would (politely) explain that I knew for a fact that it wasnt, as I saw them filming.

As far as a conviction and civil suits, I will leave that up to the court. I think the public outrage is gonna hold this one down if it becomes more public (which I hope it does). These guys took advantage of people for money. As far as I'm concerned thats enough. My guess is they will get heavy fines for holding fights without a license. Without a license they can not distribute video copies of the fights. This is the way I would like to see this go. No one goes to jail, but they will pay heavily for their stupidity and their product will be shut down.

This would leave it open for civil cases as well, and maybe, just maybe, these guys will learn that it does NOT pay to take advantage of the innocent.

twinkley
(attempting to protect all that is good and right in the world)
Eternal Optimist hehehehe

twinkley · 09-26-2002, 04:19 PM

Great, this is just lovely....

Makes me want to cry....

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...429EDT0730.DTL

This will seal the fate of bumfights - without a doubt.

twinkley

baddog · 09-26-2002, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by twinkley
Great, this is just lovely....

Makes me want to cry....

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...429EDT0730.DTL

This will seal the fate of bumfights - without a doubt.

twinkley

I am sorry, but how do you figure this incident has anything to do with bumfights?

I do not know how to break this to you, but people have been "rolling bums" since I was a kid, and there was no Internet or VCR's back then.

Next you will be saying that rape is the result of porn or BangBus.

emmanuelle · 09-26-2002, 06:27 PM

I have read far too many people trying to justify the actions of the people behind bumfights.

Two words:

Morally Reprehensible

My favourite justification: They were paid and did it of their own free will"

BULLSHIT! The mentally ill (yes, the majority of those living on our streets are mentally ill); the poor; and the addicted do not have choices. They only have opportunities to make their time slightly more bearable.

{end rant}

Horg · 09-26-2002, 10:47 PM

The producers sure are assholes, but the ones paying to see this are worse if you ask me.

twinkley · 09-27-2002, 10:32 AM

Baddog,

I think you misunderstood me. This happened before Bumfights - I know that. What I am saying is that the press of this, will help seal the fate of bumfights. It just plain sets a bad example.

Emmanuelle,

EXACTLY!

twinkley

Mmmm more news for ya - oh yeah, they didnt know what they were doing was wrong - thats why they tried to pay off the bums not to testify against them.....

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...634EDT0126.DTL

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, acts like a duck.... what else could it be?

twinkley · 09-27-2002, 10:34 AM

Baddog,

One more thing....

Rape is simple the result of a fuckedup man who has no respect for women. Rape isnt about sex - its about violence and power.

Porn doesnt cause men to rape women. Being fucked up in the head does.

twinkley

baddog · 09-27-2002, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by twinkley
Rape isnt about sex - its about violence and power.

Porn doesnt cause men to rape women. Being fucked up in the head does.

twinkley

I know that, and you know that, but you know as well as I do that there are people out there that would have you think otherwise. Please notice that I did again include the

after my suggestion that you would blame BangBus for rape.

Having had an important relationship, that became a long distance one, end because it is difficult to provide voice inflection over the Internet, I must stress that smilies are there for a reason. At least, that is why I use them.

Anyway, if you think this article about the teens beating up the homeless guy in NJ is going to have any influence on the CA case, I think you are dreaming. I also feel that the only reason that article even made the press is because of the bumfights arrest, and probably a slow news day.

In fact, while the bumfights arrests were a few days ago, they only mentioned it for the first time in LA local news last night. You will probably see more and more instances reported in the news in the coming weeks, until something more terrible comes to replace it. That is how the news works.

It is not that there are more and instances popping up, but it is topical. An example would be this summers rash of reported child abductions and murders. You would think that the world was going crazy with all the little girls being snatched from their homes, some being killed, and some being recovered. Fact is, child abductions have dropped radically. However, money has been spent on "Amber Alert" systems, so they make the news. As long as it is young white girls.

I believe I read that there are 7,000 child abductions a year. The news reported what, 20 of them? If that. Because no one reported it at all prior to this summer, those 20 made it look like an epidemic had broken out, when in fact they were at an all-time low.

The same thing is true with terrorism. Every time a box is found on the streets it is treated like it has a bomb in it. LAPD has been blowing up briefcases and lunch boxes for years. It used to make the news, then became passe. After 9/11 it became newsworthy again, kind of. LAX has been evacuated over 100 times since 9/11, The first few times it made the news. Now it may or may not, but it is hardly headline stuff anymore. It comes down to what sells newspapers.

Please don't get me wrong. I do not think bumfights is a good thing. In fact, we have been approached by them, and others like them to advertise their affiliate programs on ContentLotto. While it is always difficult to turn down advertising dollars, we did, simply because we did not want to be associated with those types of programs. We do have standards.

However, this does not mean that I personally am prepared to pass judgment, especially since I am quite familiar with the seedy underbelly known as law enforcement.

baddog · 09-27-2002, 03:36 PM

this is just a test to see if thread goes to the top or not