Hungryman, another year and you haven't paid your debt

[cdsmith]

Some of you will recall I also went on a rampage last year on behalf of Rikki Lee (aka: Teen Angel, aka: Aussie Angel), because Hungryman owed her over $1000 for design work from over a year before that.

Paul, you gave me your word. We had an agreement. Did you really think this would just "go away"?? Reminder: You hired Rikki Lee to do some work for you like 2 and a half years ago. You were paid by the clients for her work, and then you did not pay her her cut. According to her, as of yesterday on ICQ, you owe her over $1000 still.

Our agreement was that you would at LEAST make some small payments (my suggestion, my offer to you)..... you agreed that you would make a few small payments from time to time in good faith. That is ALL that I asked.... after which I backed down from trashing you publicly so you could rebuild your business and start paying down your debts.

So another year has gone by since then and according to Rikki Lee you have not made one single payment. I don't know what else to say here. I'm astounded man. To me, a person's word is their worth.

I told both you AND the other ex-design broker that owes RL money that unless the agreement was kept I would not stop bringing this disgusting issue to people's attention and recommend that people AVOID doing business with you. Did you think I was kidding?

Isn't it about time you paid Rikki Lee what you owe her?

[cdsmith]

Neither Rikki Lee or myself has been contacted by Hungryman as yet. He hasn't responded to ICQs. He did post once on another board, but it was all arrogance and defiance on his part, no shame or remorse whatsoever. He has obviously hoped that this would simply "go away" on it's own. Wrong.



TO EVERYONE: People that continue to do business with Hungryman need to know that he has ripped off some damn good and talented people in this industry in the past. If that doesn't sit well with you, there are plenty of good designers that I would gladly recommend to you.



Paul, you need to make this right. You can't screw people over like this and expect that they will just keep quiet about it. The world doesn't work that way.

[Teen Angel]

Paul.

I cant believe how you are behaving with this?

I have owed people money myself and know that it is not a nice feeling and I am guessing when you think of the debts you feel pretty overwhelmed at the amount you really do owe. I know at least 4 people you owe money to. Did you eve pay back Nem?
Ignoring it will not make the debts go away. Paying them will.

We dont care if you pay us back $5 a bloody week.

Your attitude in this matter should show the rest of the people in this business, that you are a very selfish, imature person that should simply not be trusted. People who blow off debts are not the ones that people chose to do business with.

I simply cannot believe you are still in business. That in itself does not show how talented and business minded you are. It shows that you are slimy and manipulative. And LIE.

People tried to help you. Including myself and you turn around and basically put your finger up to those people.

I am sorry I was too naieve to think that you were a better person than this...

[SKULL]

Whatever money is owed by whomever needs to be paid... honesty is part of having good ethics...

Unless I was completely fooled on Hungryman's character, here's my opinion on your letter:


It is my opinion that this letter of yours was very unwise...

Hungryman was so slimed on GFY by Vid that he's lost at least 75% of all of his revenues. It did not dawn on him, I surmise because of THC-induced neuronal slowdown, that if he destroyed Hungryman's revenue base, how would Hungry be able to repay anything back ?

But AFAIK, he did know that there was in fact no true significant debt, so it was really a vicious attack. He claimed a debt for an old VCR that he's GIVEN to him. He claimed monies for the cleaning lady, but that's about all. I guesstimate the value at 200 bucks or less. Yet, IMHO, what Vid did to Hungryman was enough to justify a major lawsuit...

And again, at this very moment, he's being attacked for God knows what sake on GFY (maybe you're leading the jihad?) , while his IP address has been blocked, therefore preventing him to defend himself. If I were him (and had money), I'd sue GFY and the slimers into friggin oblivion.

I know Hungry rather well. He's got his idiosyncratic character but he's a darn hard worker and people who are doing business with him knows that he DELIVERS the work. He's doing work for big players, but IMHO, he does not charge enough for his service AND he's too perfectionist, so he ends up working for a rather low hourly rate. Of course, his clients are ecstatic, but that doesn't make him rich...

Accessorily, he also got fleeced a few times for contracts he's done since last summer, but in these cases, it's much less pardonable because those people HAD money. Did he go on the board to whine to the world ? Nope.


Remember the old saying: what goes around comes around. Sometimes, the route goodwill takes is rather long and circuitous...

I am not aware of the minutiae of his business but I can tell you that he's been working darn hard to get himself out of the shit hole people with big ego and little brain put him into...

After a year, I suggest you not cut but rather postpone your losses. From what I know from him, and I've got to know him a lot, I think that he'll eventually make good on all his true debts.

While I agree that it might be proper to warn people not to do work for him, because of his hypothetical difficulty to make payments (just ask C.O.D.), I find it very unwise of you to discourage people to do business at all with him. He can be accused of many things, but not of being a con man and not honouring his commitments makes him deeply unhappy.

Beside, with respect to sliming him, if he doesn't get any clients because of your intervention, how do you expect him to pay you back ?

That's a real no-brainer !

The only plausible explanation to your ranting, because I refuse to ascribe sheer malice or stupidity to you, is that you probably think he's got money coming out of his ears and that he's dishonouring his commitments and that by shaming him in public, you'll entice him to pay.

But if you mis-calculated, the odds are that this will backfire against you... If you don't know the exact state of his finances, it would be wise to be cautious before undermining his ability to pay you back.

(I'm not questionning the alledged debt here. Maybe it is questionnable but I take your word for it, for the moment)

Just for entertainment, let me remind you of a few facts about his last year's business...

He spent six months of his life putting up the Webmaster's summit and got zilch out of it. He moved to Montreal with Vid and eventually, Vid backed out of their mutual projects. Apparently, Vid sucked up his knowledge, learned web design from Paul and then, when he got what he wanted, he dropped him.

Then, for highly dubious reasons, Vid slandered him over an alledged debt for a server that Vid himself owned, i.e. Vid blamed Hungryman for Vid's wrong decisions and failure to take responsibility for his own actions and claimed an imaginary debt. Then, Hungry had to move out from Vid's.

Then, later on, he was barred from participating in organising the Webmaster's summit in Vancouver, where he could hypothetically have recouped his losses. BTW, Toronto's Webmaster's summit was below par because the only guy who did significant work was him, his alledged partners being all talk and no action.

So, as I said, I suggest you postpone your losses.

As to him clearing his debts, future will tell, but I trust his character 100%.

Oh, and another thing: who do you think he'll re-imburse first? The people who preserved good relationship with him and backed him nothwithstanding his difficulties or the ones who slandered him on public forums, causing dammages to the core of his business and with/for whom he's got nothing to gain by re-imbursing because the dammage was already done to his reputation ?

That's another double-dip no-brainer...

I suggest you read the Sun Tzu (aka The Art of War, written 2400 years ago); It's a must-read for any head of corporation who want to learn about conflict management and resolution and ensuring victory...


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books


Feel free to think whatever you wish about my abovestated opinion, I'll fight to defend your right to think that I'm an utter idiot.

[cdsmith]

The above poster is so far out to lunch on so many points it will take me a while to address them all. But I understand where he/she is coming from, because not everyone is expected to know the entire history and the truth of this extensive and rather pathetic story.

For now, until I can get my day organized... suffice it to say that back about 3 years ago Paul (aka: Hungryman) ran a design brokerage. Clients would order designs from him, he would then offer the work to a real designer who would do the work for a fee which usually amounted to about 50% of the total work order. In other words, the client would pay Paul say $2,000, and he would pay the designer $1,000 and pocket a thousand himself for basically doing nothing but the referral.

I would have no problem with that except for the fact that Paul often chose NOT to pay the designer, and after almost a year of them waiting for their money they had no recourse but to take it to the boards. There was a huge... HUGE outcry, a bitter argument went on for weeks. At this time I wasn't involved but watched from the sidelines, until a friend of mine admitted that she too was one of the designers owed a substantial amount of money. Hey, $1200 or $1500 may not be much to you or me, but to some people just breaking into the industry it can mean a lot.

At that point I read that Paul and the other design brokers involved (yes there were others!) were going to make this right finally. I waited 4 months...... then I acted. This was last year, I took up the issue for Rikki Lee and posted on about eight webmaster boards about Paul and one other designer who both owed Rikki Lee a chunk of money for her hard work that she did in good faith for them.

Her work remains in their portfolios..... not paid for.... to this day as far as I know.


So, we're at a year ago...... Both designers contact me and become reasonable and take a sensible tone with me..... smart. They both cry that they are broke and barely getting by. I, not wanted to squeeze blood out of anyone, sugges that they make small payments to Rikki Lee to at least show a modicum of good faith and lower the debt bit by bit. Can they afford maybe twenty bucks a month? I know people on welfare who can come up with a lousy twenty every month or at least every other month.

The other designer made one payment..... then nothing. He has now, as of yesterday, made arrangements to start paying again, there was a misunderstanding on both ends that Rikki Lee tells me is resolved.

As for Paul, he hasn't made good on his word, and hasn't paid Rikki Lee a penny of his debt. He all but cried to me on the phone that he still had no money, barely enough to live on, wasn't working, his sites weren't making him money etc etc etc, saying "if you trash me and I don't make any money how will I be able to pay her?"....
made sense at the time... but I have remained silent for a year and let him do whatever it is he does to earn money, and to this day not one fucking DIME has come her way from him. Do you think this is right?

If she were to charge him back interest (as most ocmpanies would) he would owe much more than he did almost 3 years ago. She has resigned herself to the fact that Paul will never pay her, but I'm not going to let him freely conduct business openly on this or any other webmaster forum without letting my fellow webmasters know what he has done to other good honest hard-working talented people in our business.


If you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore the truth and pretend mr Hungryman is a great guy, by all means delude yourselves. But don't presume to sit there and tell me I'm making a mistake.... If Paul can afford an attorney then he can afford to just cover this debt and make things right once and for all. You want to call my first post a rant? Unbelievable. I am honestly astounded by that. People, it's about doing what is RIGHT. Think about it some more, because you would feel vastly different if it was you who had been screwed over like this.

[Teen Angel]

Originally posted by Feynman
Beside, with respect to sliming him, if he doesn't get any clients because of your intervention, how do you expect him to pay you back ?

You obviously have no idea about this subject therefor really shoudlnt jump to his defense so eagerly.

Your quote above is quite obvious. I have been owed this moeny for almost 3 years now.... No matter how busy he gets he will not pay the peopel he owes. His debt is in the high thousands if not more. This is owed to at least 4 designers.

HE has since said in another board that I we basically need to sue him in order to get our money back. I think that simply states that he has no intention of paying anyone back and believes that in time people will forget.

So I really think your response was, in a nutshell, uneducated on the situation at hand.

HUNGRYMAN has had it rough on occassion I know. However he has left the people who tried to help him down and out. I myself have gone on to have a flourishing business in design since parting company with him. You will, in time, come to realise he is manipulative and deceiving.

[chodadog]

Originally posted by Feynman
Blah blah blah

I am reminded of a quote i heard a while ago.

"Isn't it dangerous to use one's entire vocabulary in a single sentence?"

Seriously. Given your vocabulary, i think it would be safe to assume that you're a fairly intelligent guy, but frankly, you don't know the history of the situation, and you're spouting a bunch of ignorant nonsense.

I can't speak on behalf of Teen Angel, but i do know that the other designer, who is a friend of mine, does not need the 1 thousand dollars that Hungryman owes him. He's done quite well for himself since then, and the entertainment value is worth much more than a grand.

And i say other designer because he's the only other designer i know for sure has been ripped off by Hungryman, and never been paid even after 2 years. There are other designers coming out of the woodwork making similar claims, but i don't know them, and obviously i can't vouch for them.

I'll give you the dirt on what he did to my friend, 'cause this is the only situation where i know all the details.

Hungry outsourced some work to him, and took a 50 percent cut. A ridiculously high number in my opinion, but both parties agreed to it, so that's not an issue. What is an issue is that the 50 percent my friend was going to be paid, turned out to be less than 50 percent of what hungry was charging for the design. My friend knows this because he spoke to the people that paid for the design after the fact.

So basically, Hungry was quoting 2 grand for a job, and telling the designer that it was a 1600 dollar job, and obviously only paying him 800 instead of 1000, as per the 50/50 deal. That's some shady shit. But it gets better (or worse, depending on whether you're talking about entertainment value or ethics). Hungry simply does not pay.. at all.

Now, i'm sure my friend won't mind me saying that at the time, he wasn't doing too well financially. Hungry totally fucked him over. He's not as confrontational as some of the other designers that were shafted, and i think he believed for a while that hungry would eventually pay him.

The designs that my friend did for Hungry, which he was never paid for, are still in the paysitedesign.com portfolio.

The last time this was brought up, Hungry was making promises left, right and centre. He was going to pay the debt back in installments. Never happened. This particular designer even said he'd give the money to charity if hungryman ever paid it, in an effort to get at least some good from a shitty situation, and maybe even give hungry a shred of credibility. Even then, hungry did not pay. He just avoided the issue.

You say that we're hampering his efforts to pay the designers back by hurting his business. Let me remind you that it has been almost two years since all this shit happened. Two fucking years. And it has been a year or so since it was last brought up. You honestly think he hasn't made enough money to pay these good folks back in all that time? You're the one that says he's doing work for some big players. Fuck, what does he charge per gallery? Something insane like 50 bucks?

Hungry is far more concerned with his image than he is with business ethics. Case in point: Near the height of all this drama, he was paying for a limo to pick up some people from the airport. Remember, thsi is when he owed several people a combined total of several thousands of dollars. He's all about image, which is ironic, given what a fat miserable fuck he is.

Anyways. Thanks for taking the time to write such a long reply to the thread. Just a pity it was full of horseshit.

[-=HUNGRYMAN=-]

OK ... here is my long reply too ... but don't worry it will be my last.

BTW Chowdadog ... what program/site do you run ??

And an FYI ... $50 is not insane AT ALL for a good gallery... it is taking pride in my work, and knowing that it is going to get accepted everywhere, have a great fucking CTR, and if you chose your sponsors wisely, is gonna convert quite nicely. Going rates for a 468x60 banner is between $25 and $35, so how the fuck do you figure a full page gallery is insanely priced at $50 ????? It is not my fault that most designers don't take pride in their work, and will cut off their nose despite their face, just to undercut the next guy ...

Anybody wanting to check out MY GALLERIES (meaning designed by MYSELF chowdapuppy ....), may check out my newly updated portfolio with over 100 sample galleries at http://www.PAYSITE-GALLERIES.com

OK ... now where was I ?? Oh yeah ...

Originally posted by Fluid


it's only deframation if they're lying and you can prove it with records of payment.

thank you very much

I was only an employee of PENSFAN, and left holding the smoking gun... (and BTW the fucker still owes me $615 USD too, but I have long since accepted that I will never see that. How many times did I create a major spectacle about that though .... NONE!)

At this time yes my job was sales ... and Pensfan (along with Ricki Lee, Nemanja, Amputate Your Head, Quashe, Kelly, and I think a couple more desingers too), was in charge of the designs ....

I did sales and brought in new contracts. I was paid a flat rate each week. Period.

I was often left to deligate the work to the designers ... but Pensfan (aka Buck Naked, aka Bibiluv, aka Traci Carlson, aka Duane Hanson) controlled the purse strings ... I will rot in hell before I will pay somebody elses debt ... esp. when I live from month to month myself ? Yeah OK. I even helped Ricki Lee try to get payments from Duane (or Pensfan, Buck Naked, Traci ... whatever he goes by), for well over a year, (C'mon Ricki - call me a liar again!), and yet this is what I get!!!!!

Everybody has almost all but forgotten about Duane, as he is no longer around or visible on the boards anyways ... but my fucking reputaion has been dragged thru the mud countless fucking times!!

A comment was made on one of the boards about me being so STUPID to keep coming back for more .... It is not a matter of stupidity. I don't have anything to hide from.

Yes I did use Ricki for I think 3, maybe 4 personal projects at the same time, and yes my paperwork is in perfect order for those payments ... anybody's lawyer who wishes to inspect them may do so, but I will be fucked if I am going to post anything to a public forum ... Everybody is going to have to look elsewhere for their entertainment. Sorry. ( I hear there is this place called GO FUCK YOURSELF is supposed to be pretty good entertainment...)

OH ... I hear that "chasing PPL from board to board to board" might be added as an event to the 2008 Summer Olympics.

In closing I will further state that yes, while under Duane Hansen's employ, I did NOT design the designs, (nor was it my job to do so ...) but for at least the past year, I have run solo ... that means ME, MYSELF, and I. Anybody who wishes to come and watch me at work is more than welcome to do so ... just phone ahead so I can tidy up a bit.

I have had my final say on this issue.

[Teen Angel]

Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-
Yes I did use Ricki for I think 3, maybe 4 personal projects at the same time, and yes my paperwork is in perfect order for those payments ... anybody's lawyer who wishes to inspect them may do so, but I will be fucked if I am going to post anything to a public forum ... Everybody is going to have to look elsewhere for their entertainment. Sorry. ( I hear there is this place called GO FUCK YOURSELF is supposed to be pretty good entertainment...)

3-4 personal jobs?
YOU IDIOT! I have 19 folders of different jobs here! ns your books are in perfect order? They must be cos yes you did pay me for about 3-4 jobs. That is correct! what about the other 15-16 jobs I did for you?!
Yes I am admitting what a bloody idiot I was in continuing to do work for you when obviosly you were not paying. I was naieve and you totally took advantage of that!

Paul, I want you to say here and now straight up, if I will see my money or not?

[-=HUNGRYMAN=-]

Nice how you chose to quote THAT paragraph ... yet totally ignored the one where I ask you to call me a liar - that I did not help you for much more than a year to get money out of Duane or whoever he is now??

Why not send your entourage after him?
I guess it is easier to give me the shakedown, as I am still very visible on the boards ?

[Teen Angel]

Yes you did try to help me for a year... I didnt deny it. and I thank you for that.
HOWEVER...

I am ignoring him because he is actually PAYING! There is no need to "get an entourage after him"...

I simply want to know if you will pay me what you owe. I am really quite hurt by this Paul. I totally trusted you...

[-=HUNGRYMAN=-]

So ... hold on here ... if he is "actually paying" (which is not what your virtual boyfriend CDSmith has been saying ...) Where is the problem?

Tell him he still owes me $615 too ... and ask whatever happened to that domain he was supposed to transfer to me ?? (HOTWEBMISSTRESSES.COM)

Thanks!

[Teen Angel]

pensfan and my arrangments are none of your business.

Please just answer me if you are able to pay me? Even in installments?

[Teen Angel]

pensfan and my arrangments are none of your business.

Please just answer me if you are able to pay me? Even in installments?

[StuartD]

the number of views this thread has is quite amazing.

[cool1]

Originally posted by StuartD
the number of views this thread has is quite amazing.

Lots of views, but not so many posts.

[Teen Angel]

Sorry guys. I had never intended this to be such a drama! As you can see hugnryman is making everything ten times worse!

[cdsmith]

I really do not care about all this "he said - she said" crap. I don't care about conventions or peripheral dammages. To me Paul, most of your replies here or on other boards have been mostly about little side arguments, about who paid the rent, about who moved in with whom.


I don't care.



This is about the money you owe Ricki Lee. Period.

Here are the facts...
Last year when I called you out publicly you phoned me. FACT
During that phone call you admitted that you owed her over $1000 US. FACT
You confided that you had no money. FACT
You all but cried about your situation at the time. FACT
I offered you a way to pay that debt in small increments. FACT
You then said your sites and business income were too small. FACT
I offered to help you with your TGP. FACT
I offered to back off from making this even more public so you could earn some money. FACT
You knew full well that in earning said money you would use it to make payments to Rikki Lee. FACT
You gave me your word on the above. fucking FACT.


Now you're going to sit there and deny all debt to Rikki Lee? I don't think so. If you want to get all bent out of shape and play the riteous martyr, go for it Paul. There are some pretty respected people... a lot of them actually, on the boards who are corroborating what I have said, and a lot who are coming forward with their own details of you owing them money as well. Who is the community at large going to believe... you? If they do they do so at their own risk.

Repeat: if anyone is fooled by Paul, aka: -=HUNGRYMAN=-, formerly known as "Brianna", you do so at your own risk, your own peril.



Paul, just start paying on the debt to RL and I will happily leave you alone. That is all, I have no other motive or agenda against you or anyone. In other circumstances I could have continued liking you Paul, as I did once, because you seem like an otherwise likeable guy...... but I simply cannot abide by anyone screwing over people I have come to know and respect in this business, good people, trusting people.

The only one who can end this sad situation Paul is you.

[Don Soporno]

Originally posted by Teen Angel
Sorry guys. I had never intended this to be such a drama! As you can see hugnryman is making everything ten times worse!

LOLOLOLOL.....anytime someone takes something to a board they intend for there to be drama

[Duane AKA Pensfan]

Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-
So ... hold on here ... if he is "actually paying" (which is not what your virtual boyfriend CDSmith has been saying ...) Where is the problem?

Tell him he still owes me $615 too ... and ask whatever happened to that domain he was supposed to transfer to me ?? (HOTWEBMISSTRESSES.COM)

Thanks!

Interesting...

Ya know I hate message boards... I enjoy reading them but 90% of the time when I post or try to be a board whore it blows up in my face, and I end up regretting it. So I don't post, I do my thing and try to make up for the mistakes of being excessivly ambitious, most of the time it getting the best of me...

BTW I am paying angel 50 bucks a month, if there are any other people I owe money to that want the same deal send me an email at bucknaked@buckgear.net and we can get that set up... I haven't had much money at all for the last year and a half after leaving adult.com but I will make it right...
Hell it may only end up being 20 bucks a month but it's better than nothing is what cd says

So let me get this straight Paul... You are saying that when you were taking advantage of all these designers, angel for a ton of projects, and also posting Danevans work in your portfolio that I helped him develop and paid him, for that you were working for me?

So when did all this happen? Cuz you haven't worked for me for years paul. When I tried to help you out cuz you were the laughing stock of the adult web over the brianna fiasco. you didn't do shit except spend all your time trying to make yourself rich when I was sending you what little money I had.

My fucking debts are my debts, I made my own, and the fact that you're trying to say that you're debts are mine or traci's is fucking rediculous...

If I had a lawyer could I get him to sue you for slander and defamation? You're a fucking joke and a crook, which is ironic that people think I'm a crook yet I am calling you one, so you must be a real fucker...

And for you to try and say that I am traci when you've talked to her on the phone is fucking stupid man... Leave her out of this, she's doing her thing away from this zoo and is very happy.

Now about me owing you money? Are you fucking retarded? I have done nothing but give everything I had to you... I drove 5 hours to Erie Pennsylvania paid for dinner for you and your deadbeat family's ass AND gave you a computer since yours died, which you in turn traded in for a new one without telling me.

As far as hotwebmistresses, I paid for it, it was in my directnic account, I let it go and it's in a better place so fucking deal with it.

So paul you wanna talk shit like I'm gonna lay down and take the blame for your cons, I don't think so... Did I ever own part of your design business? Amp did me a favor back when he liked me and designed the original paysitedesign.com for you so you would go on your way and leave me alone, and you actually had the nuts to show it off to him as your own...

AHAHAHAHAAHAHA! You are a tool, and people like DaneEvans, Angel and cd smith will haunt you till you die.

Just as they haunt me if I don't do what I say I am going to do.

Like I said in the beginning, I ain't blaming anyone for the debts I've incurred and the mistakes I've made. They are mine alone...

So there you have it. Why would I lie? I am already out like a gay guy in san francisco.

Paul you are the one that is delusional enough to think that this stuff means nothing and you can go about your business like you've done nothing wrong, not me...

That's all I have to say, I'm sure Paul, You'll come back with some blah blah blah it's never my fault, I was abducted by aliens, everyone loves me bullshit...

Whatever man, your wife leaving you wasn't your fault either even though she warned you for 5 months to get off your fat ass and get a job to support your family.

Why would this whole mess be your fault either?


PEACE I'M OUTTA HERE!

Duane AKA PENSFAN

[chodadog]

Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-
And an FYI ... $50 is not insane AT ALL for a good gallery...

You're right. $50 is not insane for a good gallery. However, it is insane for one of your galleries.

Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-
I will rot in hell before I will pay somebody elses debt

As i already asked on Porno Junkies. If this is the case, why is it that you even offered to pay bhutocracy for the work he did for you if "you will rot in hell before you pay somebody elses debt."

You are lying. You are a liar. You always have been, and you always will be. Your story doesn't add up. There are way too many inconsistencies. It's hard enough for you to keep your lies straight in a single thread. Don't even try it over the space of a couple of years, you stupid fuck.

[chodadog]

By the way Hungry:

Are you claiming that the techie media and pr bucks websites were done while you and Duane still had a business relationship?

And ask yourself, would someone be asking this question if they didn't already know the answer?

[cdsmith]

As you can see here Paul, your business is hurting by the minute. Anytime you want to change your tone with me and begin making this right I'm here.


If you've somehow misplaced my icq, here it is: 31024634


If you have gathered new clients and are cultivating new business, it doesn't have to all be ruined. Your best solution is so simple. It is right in front of you, within your grasp.


Just pay what you owe.


As of present, the designs you haven't paid for, you stole. C'mon Paul, your new persona isn't really a thief is he?

[chodadog]

Anyways. Some of you might wonder why i'm even involved in this. I wasn't involved in any of the dealings. A friend of mine was. Bhutocracy designed the Techie Media website, as well as some other work. Let me give you some details about how the deal went down.

Hungryman got the job to do the techie media website, and contacted bhutocracy to do it for him. By the way, this was apparently because he didn't have enough time to do the work on his own, 'cause he had so much work, but given his financial status, i think it's safe to assume that this is a bunch of bollocks, and the real reason is that he is a hack designer.

Anyways. Hungry tells Bhuto that the design is going to cost 1000 dollars, and his cut will be 500 dollars, as per their 50/50 arrangement.

Hungryman charges techie media 2500 bucks for the job. Pretty fucking shady, huh? How does bhutocracy know this? Because Jim/Lightning told him so. That's how. When Jim contacted bhutocracy to update one of the flash pieces, bhuto asked when jim was going to pay for the job, 'cause he hadn't been paid yet, and had obviously assumed that HM hadn't been paid either. This is when Jim informs bhuto that he has in fact paid HM... the full $2500.

Oh, and don't forget the bonus that Jim paid Hungryman 'cause he liked the site so much. Of course, hungry didn't mention that to Andrew.

So now you've probably realised how much of a thieving fuckwit Paul really is. Christ, 500 bucks out of $2500+ when they had a 50/50 arrangement? That's fucking outrageous! But wait, it gets worse.

Bhutocracy never even received the $500.

Not one cent out of over $2500.

To this day, the work that bhutocracy did for Hungryman is still in paysitedesign.com's portfolio. I can see Paul's reluctance to remove the work. The techie media website is far and away one of the best items in the portfolio.

Hungryman will tell you a bunch of lies. He'll tell you that bhutocracy only did the flash, but bhutocracy has the original PSD files. All Hungryman did was take the sliced images and flash files that bhuto made, and whack them together in HTML, which any ape can do. No more than half an hours worth of work. Possibly an hour if you're mildly retarded.

For that, he thinks he's entitled to over $2500.

For Hungry's story to be true, both bhutocracy and jim/lightning must be lying. Both of them are successful and respected. Jim has no possible reason to lie, as he has nothing to lose or to gain from the situation. He is a completely innocent party.

Time to 'fess up, hungryman. Your lies don't add up.

[chodadog]

I don't even understand how someone can fuck up this kind of arrangement. You receive your payment, and the very moment you get it, you pass on what is owed to the other party. You hold onto that money for as short as possible, to minimise the chances of you fucking something up and putting yourself in a position where you can't pay that person.

Seems like whenever Hungryman has a spare bit of cash, he liks to buy champagne and rent limos. Big fuckin' pimp player he is.

[bhutocracy]

I just want a few words in private with HM.

[cdsmith]

Originally posted by chodadog
I don't even understand how someone can fuck up this kind of arrangement. You receive your payment, and the very moment you get it, you pass on what is owed to the other party. You hold onto that money for as short as possible, to minimise the chances of you fucking something up and putting yourself in a position where you can't pay that person.

Exactly. It galls me to no end that someone would disregard all ethics both business and personal and just pocket the money that rightfully belongs to someone else. If some people are sitting out there still wondering why I'm posting this thread on several boards, that's one of the reasons right there.


Today I will be compiling a list of all those who have a claim with Paul/Hungryman. People will be able to see at a glance just what the scope of the issue is.

[-=HUNGRYMAN=-]

Then have Jim (not some imposter either) come and tell me and everybody else that he paid $2500 ("cash in hand" at a convention even) for Techiemedia.

Jim is a very shrewd businessman, but in my dealings with him,I believe he is not a liar, and probably wants to remove himself and his company as far as possible from being involved in this he said she said ...

Involving specific clients by name in any of this is totally unprofessional and uncalled for.

I'm out.

[chodadog]

Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-
Then have Jim (not some imposter either) come and tell me and everybody else that he paid $2500 ("cash in hand" at a convention even) for Techiemedia.

Jim is a very shrewd businessman, but in my dealings with him,I believe he is not a liar, and probably wants to remove himself and his company as far as possible from being involved in this he said she said ...

Involving specific clients by name in any of this is totally unprofessional and uncalled for.

I'm out.

Oh shut the fuck up, you tool. Bhuto already said that he made a mistake and assumed you had had a face to face meeting with jim, based on what he had said on ICQ. Just read something wrong, basically. Does not change that Jim has told both Bhuto AND CDSmith that he paid you $2500 for the design.

I'm sure Jim won't mind getting the truth out there. Techie Media is not looking any worse for wear due to this whole saga, because everyone realises that they are a completely innocent party, despite the fact that you're trying to push the idea that we're insinuating otherwise.

How does it feel for your lies to finally catch up with you?