Disappearing Affiliates?

[Cyndalie]

Is it just me or are there fewer and fewer affiliates in adult now than in the past 5 years? It seems there are less submitters as everywhere charges for partner accounts now or paid gallery listings, less blogs and freesites although the sponsor provided content is available via rss, and I don't see many smaller freesites networking as there were before with PR demands for exchanges and existing traffic hard to harvest from SE's.

Lately shows are 90% b2b and 10% affiliate/services/webmster related. By B2B I mean established business and programs soliciting and doing business with one another.

You do see webmasters on the baords, that own a site here or there and make a few extra bucks off it, and enjoy the community that is adult business. However the pool seems to be shrinking and struggling to me.

Honestly, how hard is it for a webmaster to start up a free site in which to earn revenue from affiliate programs right now? Any kind of site...how long until one starts earning $500 a month without existing contacts and traffic feeds... I'm talking ground up, not buying traffic or listings - just paying for hosting. What do you think?

[TheLegacy]

the webmasters that I talk too have a few things in mind

1) scare over 2257
2) scare over images being copyrighted
3) see free porn sites as a dime a dozen, so are thinking of paysites and realizing nothing is free anymore.

and your right - some see paying for gallery listings as throwing money into an ocean where there are dozens others and your attempting to show yourself as different.

I personally see it as either they stay away from porn thinking the market is super saturated or start up a paysite with exclusive content that you cant find anywhere else.

[Cyndalie]

Originally Posted by TheLegacy

the webmasters that I talk too have a few things in mind

1) scare over 2257
2) scare over images being copyrighted
3) see free porn sites as a dime a dozen, so are thinking of paysites and realizing nothing is free anymore.

and your right - some see paying for gallery listings as throwing money into an ocean where there are dozens others and your attempting to show yourself as different.

I personally see it as either they stay away from porn thinking the market is super saturated or start up a paysite with exclusive content that you cant find anywhere else.

Are the number of privately owned paysites increasing?
Or do newbies hear now that the only way to make money is to have an affiliate program so throw up a paysite and get webmasters to promote it for you and you will make money. Don't bother to try or learn marketing it yourself..etc.

Since your clients are both private paysite owners and corporate, I'm curious on your perspective.

[TheLegacy]

I am noticing myself that there in the past few months alot of new paysite owners who claim to have had success in free sites. I basically have to retrain them to think paysites but for me, yes - I have noticed an increase in paysite webmasters who owned free sites.

the other group are newbies - not having any sites - but preferred to get started with a paysite rather than take the free route because they see way too many free stuff out there and are leaning towards exclusive content they can shoot themselves realizing that "new" is better.

I can think of numerous seminar panels where industry professionals made claims telling webmasters to avoid paysites opting instead to start free sites and learn the ropes so to speak. what we are learning apparently is that they are prepared to buy into a service company. so I really don't think that the "free train" will die - but as said - will be slower since now there are more "professionals" offering services to new webmasters such as traffic, SEO work etc. that they otherwise would have had to learn on their own.

The appearance I am getting is demographically 'free sites' are created by those under 25 who don't have money to start a paysite but do have time. over 25 are looking to paysites because the legalities seem safer - the experience can be purchased and the competition is minimal if they find exclusive content rather than stand in line on a tgp waiting for your turn at CC holders.

that again is just what I am getting here at my end

[Cyndalie]

Good stuff Rob, Thanks!

[Lena_DCB]

Man this does not give me hope for trying to find affialiates for my site but I do think I am in a different kind if arena.

[TheLegacy]

Originally Posted by Lena_DCB

Man this does not give me hope for trying to find affialiates for my site but I do think I am in a different kind if arena.

please dont misunderstand me. this is a slow process and NOT signal of a breakdown. there will always be free sites and those making money from them.. the world and the net is a big big place. what I am noticing is that the days of drinking a webmaster under the table or being 'pimp' on a webmaster board does not give you immediate sign ups under you.

to be smart and get large numbers of webmasters BE a webmaster to them. show them how to make it rich, sustain and help build them up - give them customer service and adult industry wisdom that they become dependant on you and trust you. That is what cyndalie does and she is one of the best out there. Webmasters sign up with her not only because they trust her and her program with 12clicks is hot - but she dedicates herself to training them on being successful - not show off on boards and be their drinking buddy. Those sales reps are gone within an average 3 months to a year.

[Quagmire]

I think The Legacy is hitting all the nails on the head all by himself.

Promising everyone wealth, hot chicks and being pimp on the boards only works for so long. The part timers drop off from a lack of sales (yay!) and the full time webmasters can smell the bullshit from a mile away and steer clear of the program.

I'm not going to name names, but IMHO some of the bigger players have given affiliates reason to question the credibility of their program through their actions. People are starting to think twice before sending their precious traffic on to programs.

[Platinum Chris]

I can't really answer the question from a past tense till now in terms of volume, but I still get quite a few valid sign ups per day. Things have definitely changed, and it comes down to running free sites and TGP's from when I was running an Non-nude site with some friends a few years back. It all boils down to now: 'If you want to play, you have to pay'. Invest some extra $ into a couple traffic sources to get a good flow, then work on good trades. Then keep on the trades ensure you're getting quality back.

The hours that need to go into these projects as well have gone up and up over the years. Gone are the 10-12hr days and hello to the 16hr+. I think that, above all else is what may scare some new free site affiliates away. Also, I think that fact keeps many off the boards as well. You can't really spend the time necessary to go through many of the boards looking for new opportunities and maintain your site(s) unless you got a caffeine line going directly into your blood stream.

[Evil Chris]

Here's another point to maybe consider. I have noticed that many (if not most) of my newest affiliates wish to remain quiet about their online businesses. They lurk the boards and check out the resources that are available, but rarely post or make themselves known.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

Here's another point to maybe consider. I have noticed that many (if not most) of my newest affiliates wish to remain quiet about their online businesses. They lurk the boards and check out the resources that are available, but rarely post or make themselves known.

If you don't mind me asking, what are their stats like? Are they newbies or just new affiliates keeping their activities on the DL because they want to avoid drama?

[Xcash]

Here I am ..newbie , healthy and warkaholic

Seriously speaking .. I've just landed in porn industry few days ago after spending 2+ years in MLM/advertising industry.
I want to make serious cash in this industry and I'm ready to spare time and money as much as it needs.

Can somebody guide my first steps .... I dont know what to start with as right now I'm only reading boards and trying to get as many infos as possible

[TheLegacy]

Originally Posted by Xcash

Here I am ..newbie , healthy and warkaholic

Seriously speaking .. I've just landed in porn industry few days ago after spending 2+ years in MLM/advertising industry.
I want to make serious cash in this industry and I'm ready to spare time and money as much as it needs.

Can somebody guide my first steps .... I dont know what to start with as right now I'm only reading boards and trying to get as many infos as possible

it truly depends on what you enjoy first - don't start a site based on stats, simply because your going to shoot or buy content that you dont care about without realizing your members do. going cheap may be good for you, but in the long run - your members will notice it and you wont make your money back.

hit me up and we can talk more

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by TheLegacy

it truly depends on what you enjoy first - don't start a site based on stats, simply because your going to shoot or buy content that you dont care about without realizing your members do. going cheap may be good for you, but in the long run - your members will notice it and you wont make your money back.

hit me up and we can talk more

Now THIS is a thread!

Warren, you're a pro. I admire that. You're telling the folks here just what the real deal is with no ruffles and flourishes.

I'm in a different class than the regular webmaster. I should be calling you up and getting some smarts.

I do toons. I create my own. Comics, comic books, animation. All original. I don't have to pay studios for content nor worry about 2257 and IDs for models and their ages, agents, payrolls. Just me, artpad, scanner, computer, software and internet access.

That's it! If I started from the ground floor up my total costs would be maybe $1k for a laptop, far less for home built computer, $70 for a flatbed scanner, $12 a month for high speed internet access, $12 for an artpad, $6 or $7 for a host. I would do a 30 pic AVS site and build it up to a top site and then move on from there.

That's how I started. Wasn't long before I was making a living at it to my surprise!

Add to that doing content for other webmasters it provided a healthy and safe income.

I didn't do this full time. Only part-part time and now I see my errors. I'm now at it full time and learning fast. Started some new blogs with my exclusive content and things are picking up fast. Outside projects added to make sure I don't have all my eggs in one basket.

Affiliates only work if the playing field is fair. You can't sign up for a program when it's been oversaturated by 'select' webmasters during the beta stage. I've seen new affiliate programs started after 6 months of 'select' webmasters blasting it on all their top sites. Who the hell wants to sell old shit? It's a waste of time and effort. When a new program launches, it's gotta be fair and square or not at all.

I remember webmasters who started when I started who went on to mega bucks. Blew it all on dope, alcohol, women, stupid shit. Now they're struggling back up the ladder. Some guys get big in this business then get an attitude like their shit doesn't stink. Inevitably you'll see them crash and burn. Worse is the 'gang' mentality or what I call 'dishonor amongst theives'. I've made some good money on out of court settlements when come to find out certain gangs of webmasters went out of their way to do me harm. There's no honor amongst theives and a guy who would undermine someone else is not a person you can trust even when he's supposed to be your friend or hang out buddy. Inevitably he'll slip up, get busted and turn evidence. It is inevitable. Why? Because after the gang screws you over they get overconfident and start screwing each other over. Then here comes the cops or one of them calls you up to tell you such n such did this or that and then you have to call your lawyers. It's like it never ends how stupid and greedy some people can be.

The bottom line is honesty and integrity. Hard/smart work and tenacity.

I judges an affiliate program on two criteria, support and content. That's right, support comes first. If their support to the webmaster is shitty you can imagine what it'd be like to the customer.

I had my own affiliate program through another company several years ago. It was a hit til that company folded up. I tinkered with it the past year, saw what I was doing wrong and will start a new toon affiliate soon.

Things on the web change quickly. You never know what'll hit next. New laws especially. Any moment a new series of laws or those as yet unenforced could cause a major upheaval in this business. Perhaps they should considering some of the scum I've run into over the years. Believe it or not though, this industry doesn't have anywhere near as many scumbags like I've run into in other fields of business and I'm talking journalism, law, mainstream media.

So regarding affiliates, you have to do your due diligence.

[Xcash]

Originally Posted by TheLegacy

it truly depends on what you enjoy first - don't start a site based on stats, simply because your going to shoot or buy content that you dont care about without realizing your members do. going cheap may be good for you, but in the long run - your members will notice it and you wont make your money back.

hit me up and we can talk more

Added your ICQ thanks

[TheLegacy]

awesome overview and comments GregB.. really do appreciate not only your kind words to me, but stating what most know and are hesitant in speaking. it certainly is refreshing to hear someone go over what is truly going on in their lives.

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by TheLegacy

awesome overview and comments GregB.. really do appreciate not only your kind words to me, but stating what most know and are hesitant in speaking. it certainly is refreshing to hear someone go over what is truly going on in their lives.

Anytime Robert.

I may have a way for you to have some fun voicing your opinion in another medium if you're up to it. I'll PM you.

[MediaGuy]

Probably there's less big-time affiliates now - can't afford to make the shows... they grovel enough together to make a living, but no one site is making any affiliate enought to put his kid through college... or they just forget all the gazillaions of passwords and programs they have and don't get around to collecting lol.

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by MediaGuy

Probably there's less big-time affiliates now - can't afford to make the shows... they grovel enough together to make a living, but no one site is making any affiliate enought to put his kid through college... or they just forget all the gazillaions of passwords and programs they have and don't get around to collecting lol.

Almost. Too many affiliates don't show up in public probably because they're too scared the people they've screwed over will punch their lights out or the cops will especially the ones who hire flunkies to do their dirty work until the flunky doesn't get paid and turns states evidence against them.

[MediaGuy]

Originally Posted by Greg B

Almost. Too many affiliates don't show up in public probably because they're too scared the people they've screwed over will punch their lights out or the cops will especially the ones who hire flunkies to do their dirty work until the flunky doesn't get paid and turns states evidence against them.

Damn. Sounds like something out of Wiseguys or the Sopranos...

It's funny because on affiliate-heavy sites all you hear is how the program is screwing them over... but really if there was so much screwing over of everyone by each other, wouldn't the whole thing just collapse and we'd go back to peddling polaroids out of shoe boxes in alleyways?

[Cyndalie]

How much does a webmaster have to pay per month in paid submissiosn to TGP/MGP's in order to turn a profit with hosted galleries?

Anyone know?