Embarrassed to be a Canadian - Page 2

Kath · 03-25-2003, 02:16 PM

I don't think you should EVER be embarrassed to be from your own country. You can be embarrassed by what some of your countrymen do - appauled by what some of your leaders and officials do when the "represent" you to the world - but don't ever be embarrassed about where you come from.

You don't think Americans are ever embarrassed by what OUR countrymen do when the cameras are on them? Maybe you haven't watched the weather channel during tornado season - or haven't caught a monster truck rally on the Speed Channel - but we DO have our moments too.

Tell you what...just watch CNN this week - no matter how you feel about the war on Iraq, our dirty laundry is there for all to see...

Pidgin · 03-25-2003, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ronaldo
Ouch, good one.
Thankfully he's gone in about a year.
One more year, one more year, one more year

I am not an american so I have no saying there, but I think you are delusional if you think Bush will not be reelected. As dumb as some of you think he is, he will be damn popular after the war with Iraq since you Americans like victories

Also - you like capitalism - and he brings exactly that.
Some of you appriciate a man with balls - and sure he got those

He may be dumb - but that appeal to the common man

His opponent is a jerk (imho). This Tom Daschle is a spineless jerk. I am not talking about his views - just the man itself

Unless Democrats come with a Clinton clone they stand no chance at all.

As for other countries' leaders having "balls" for opposing the war. That is one option. The other is - they are chicken-shit. Its not like they are great diplomats and had helped in promoting the diplomatic process of disarming Iraq. They sat on their fat asses all this while and all they can do is shout booo at someone else saying he didn't do enouhg - as if its HIS war and not their's.
Actually - being chickenshits like they are it is indeed not their war since they know the US will protect them if they are attacked or thretned.
I call it as I see it. Any leader opposing the war because of "UN/world support" or "popularity" (as if the right thing is always popular) is a spineless nobody.

I have more respect for naive dreamers who object the war because they are blind and pacifist.

Ronaldo · 03-25-2003, 03:07 PM

XXXManager,

By quoting me I'm assuming you think that I was referring to Bush not getting re-elected. I re-read this thread and while it IS confusing, I was referring to our Prime Minister stepping down in a year.

I DO believe that GWB will get re-elected.

However, Bush Sr. was also very popular during and after the Gulf war. That didn't get him re-elected. I hope that's not the case for Bush Jr.

Aside from having to point out those two things, I agree with everthing else you said. Except the last line.

Pidgin · 03-25-2003, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ronaldo
By quoting me I'm assuming you think that I was referring to Bush not getting re-elected. I re-read this thread and while it IS confusing, I was referring to our Prime Minister stepping down in a year.
...However, Bush Sr. was also very popular during and after the Gulf war. That didn't get him re-elected. I hope that's not the case for Bush Jr.

Hi ronaldo
i wasn't critisizing you in any way at all. I actually agree with most of what I read in your posts here so far.
Although your PM is not mine - I am asshamed of him, regardless of his political views which I have no knowledge of. I will shy away from that atm.
As to bush reelection and his father issue - I didn't say the war was the only reason he will be reelected. its the collection of the multiple issues I was covering. And unlike the previous gulf war - this one comes as part of a longer campaign and will not be forgotten as fast as the previous.

Dean · 03-25-2003, 03:33 PM

The beauty of Canada, like the U. S., is that one can voice their opinions without consequence. This is the essence of which our brothers and sisters are risking the ultimate sacrafice ~ their lives, as they fight to protect our way of life.

I have nothing, but respect and admiration for Canadians ~ and you too for that matter.

... your heart's in the right place, my friend!

twinkley · 03-25-2003, 05:09 PM

XXXmanager...

I dont think you are correct. I dont think bush is going to be elected, and here is why.

People care about what directly affects their lives. Unemployment is at an all time high right now. A lot of people have loved ones over in Iraq and surrounding countries fighting a war they dont believe in. The stock market has been steadily falling since bush took office ....

The fact is, this war is supposed to take the view away from those things.... I just dont think it will be enough.

twinkley

Becky · 03-25-2003, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JMan
War's not Good

Saddam is BAD

I am proud to be Canadian

But I do give a damn.

Peace Out everyone

I like your response the best!

sherie · 03-25-2003, 07:29 PM

I am not embarrassed to be Canadian, although I am embarrassed of my government.

I am embarrassed because we have a PM that is a weak coward!

He has not stood up for our Country, nor has he said things that he should have said such as A) We do have troops over there, they are peacekeepers. B) We have taken so much money away from our Military that it is pointless to send more people over there, as they do not have the resources. C) That he will repremand those in the cabnet that make comments like moron and bastard. D) That he only has what 7 months left and doesn't give a shit. Well ok so he is not going to publically state some of that. But he should be defending us and the stance instead of hiding behind the UN and it's decision.

He should have stood up and explained to the world what Canada does and has done. Not just sit back like a toad and say nothing. He has not represented us well at all. This statement is not about whether or not I am pro or anti war at all, I am just stating that I am not embarrassed of my Country I am embarrassed of the MORON BASTARDS that we have running it!

That is my 2cents!

Pidgin · 03-25-2003, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by twinkley
XXXmanager...
I dont think you are correct. I dont think bush is going to be elected, and here is why.
1. People care about what directly affects their lives.
2. Unemployment is at an all time high right now.
3. A lot of people have loved ones over in Iraq and surrounding countries fighting a war they dont believe in.
4. The stock market has been steadily falling since bush took office ....
5. The fact is, this war is supposed to take the view away from those things....
I just dont think it will be enough.
twinkley

1. That is too general statement. It is true but not pointing a direction. I remember alot of you speaking on TV after the 9/11 about how you are all changed and realize some people/countries hate you even if you are far away from them.
2. Unemployement in US is higer than 2 years ago as in every country on earth. There is a world recession. The economical nature of a resession is complex and I can assure you it has hardly anything to do with your presidnt. Im not saying he is the best president econimically speaking - but stating unemployement has risen since he was elected is not looking at the right reasons
3. So what? Still 72% of you support the operation in the gulf. as a matter of fact 50% on democrats support Bush position on Iraq. Not only that but caring about the people there is - as point #1 - not too directional. Iraq and the war in general is not an issue due to the fact that even a democratic government will imho be going to war today. if not today than in 2 years when 30K americans die in some bigger catasrophe.
4. Same as #2 and in many ways a preceeding indicator of it. The stock market has zero relation to Bush and its policy. None at all. The stock market collapse is a result of the bubble effect, the global recession and 9/11 and terror in general.
5. I personally - and as someone living in this area - see things very differently. If you think your society and economy can survive economically (and otherwise) terror attacks like 9/11 and instabilities resulting from terror and world insecurity and instability in long terms, I think you are dead wrong.

But you are missing the main point imho..
A. The end of the war will bring very positive economical changes to the US as well as many other countries around the world.
B. You WILL win the war. You WILL (i believe) find WMD. You WILL rub it in to the french and others. You WILL like that - BIG time. You WILL like GWB for it. You are Americans in general
C. You have no alternative today for Bush. Who? Tom Daschle? That twat? Any person who states on TV that he moved from supporting US actions to opposing it, only because he saw so many other countries not supporting this policy is a dangerous snake that should be taken as far as possible from any position that can influence the world in any way.

Don't get me wrong. If -I was an American I would be a Democrat in many ways (have no Idea who I would vote to though).
I have many social views that are democratic. I liked Clinton big time and love his wife. I would have voted for them if I were you. BUT they are not there to be voted.
As I said - Unless they come up with a Clinton clone - the Democrats will loose imo. Just my view and guess - but I see no flaws in it so far. I am sure its inaccurate in many points - but I don't see anything that will overall tip it over.
Im not saying its good or bad - or if I like it or not. I just don't see an probable altenative.

Darin · 03-25-2003, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by twinkley
XXXmanager...

I dont think you are correct. I dont think bush is going to be elected, and here is why.

People care about what directly affects their lives. Unemployment is at an all time high right now. A lot of people have loved ones over in Iraq and surrounding countries fighting a war they dont believe in. The stock market has been steadily falling since bush took office ....

The fact is, this war is supposed to take the view away from those things.... I just dont think it will be enough.

twinkley

Twinkley, stick to porn sites.

twinkley · 03-26-2003, 11:13 AM

**twinkley smacks darin upside the head**

nobody was talkin to you fool!

XXXManaager,

What you say is true, however, that doesnt really change the way people think. It is a known fact by economists and politicians alike (at least here) that the state of the economy directly impacts how the people think of the president. The fact that people are scrambling for money is going to a make a huge difference in the next election. The fact that people are out of work (this is actually the highest unemployment has been here in almost a decade) is going to affect the election. Not because the president REALLY has anything to do with those things, but because people relate the economy to how good a president is.

Perfect Example: Clinton. Through ALL the scandals his FIRST term, the man still managed to get re-elected ..... why? Because the nation was floushing! People were fat and happy and money was flowing like water. Unemployment was low, jobs were pleniful, the stock market hit SEVERAL all time highs.....

But, in the immortatl words of Dennis Miller

"This is just my opinion, I could be wrong"

twinkley

Darin · 03-26-2003, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by twinkley
**twinkley smacks darin upside the head**

nobody was talkin to you fool!

XXXManaager,

What you say is true, however, that doesnt really change the way people think. It is a known fact by economists and politicians alike (at least here) that the state of the economy directly impacts how the people think of the president. The fact that people are scrambling for money is going to a make a huge difference in the next election. The fact that people are out of work (this is actually the highest unemployment has been here in almost a decade) is going to affect the election. Not because the president REALLY has anything to do with those things, but because people relate the economy to how good a president is.

Perfect Example: Clinton. Through ALL the scandals his FIRST term, the man still managed to get re-elected ..... why? Because the nation was floushing! People were fat and happy and money was flowing like water. Unemployment was low, jobs were pleniful, the stock market hit SEVERAL all time highs.....

But, in the immortatl words of Dennis Miller

"This is just my opinion, I could be wrong"

twinkley

Dennis Miller is right, you're wrong.

StuartD · 03-26-2003, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darin
Dennis Miller is right, you're wrong.

Hmm.. you make a good arguement... strong and solid points and undeniable facts... you definitely put a lot of research into this response

sherie · 03-26-2003, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by StuartD
Hmm.. you make a good arguement... strong and solid points and undeniable facts... you definitely put a lot of research into this response

You could have said, 'Well Rick Mercer was right too' LOL

Darin · 03-26-2003, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by StuartD
Hmm.. you make a good arguement... strong and solid points and undeniable facts... you definitely put a lot of research into this response

Thank You.

twinkley · 03-26-2003, 03:20 PM

Darin,

Dont make me twist that gerbils head off....

It WONT be pretty hahahahahaha

twinkley

sherie · 03-26-2003, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by twinkley
Darin,

Dont make me twist that gerbils head off....

It WONT be pretty hahahahahaha

twinkley

Pull an Ozzy and bite it's head off!! Now *that* won't be pretty!! LOL

Darin · 03-26-2003, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by twinkley
Darin,

Dont make me twist that gerbils head off....

It WONT be pretty hahahahahaha

twinkley

I might like that.

Darin · 03-26-2003, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sherie
Pull an Ozzy and bite it's head off!! Now *that* won't be pretty!! LOL

.. and THAT really turns me on.

sherie · 03-26-2003, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darin
.. and THAT really turns me on.

I'm here to do what I can, what ever the cause!

Pidgin · 03-26-2003, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sherie
I'm here to do what I can, what ever the cause!

Why don't I get sexually offensive offers

Anyway - as I said Twinkley..
Your economy is in a recession. Recessions are temporal. Wars help get out of recessions. I do agree that this is the only threat to Bush next term BUT I don't think it will be an issue on what? 2-3 years?
Time will tell.

The fact that this is the only reason Bush is in threat - and NOT the fact that the democrats have an appealing and wise man as an opposition should worry you more than the immediate temporary economic situation. Politics off - this Daschle seems to me like a dickhead. Person-wise not politically/patriotically(US)

cdsmith · 03-27-2003, 01:42 AM

There are protestors wandering in groups through my city, mindlessy parroting "no war (drool) no war"

Sometimes these things are best addressed by others.....

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself"

-- John Stuart Mill

I truly believe this will be a better world once we are minus one tyrant.

I've recently heard from relatives that have been travelling in the US that have been refused service in some restaraunts and stores for "being Canadian". Ignorant, yes, but just as I assign the blame for this war on Hussein, I also assign the blame for this descrimination squarely where it belongs..... on the shoulders of one Jean Chretien. I hope that Americans will come to realize that a large percentage of Canadians openly support the coalition's effort to defeat Saddam, if not forgive our nation for turning it's back on it's friend.

twinkley · 03-27-2003, 11:16 AM

XXXManager....

You are correct - the democrats DONT have an impressive candidate to take over for bush.

That means the field is FINALLY clear for an independant or libertarian to run. Hopefully. We have seen in the last ohhhh 3-4 elections the steady increse (although still minor) in support for people who are not with either of the major parties.

Personally, I think that would be the absolute best thing to happen in the election.

Oh, and I guess im gonna have to ramp up the dirty talk on ICQ huh??

twinkley

ric knows nina · 03-27-2003, 10:58 PM

great posts XXXManager and cdsmith. I'm with you.

hey Twinkley! I don't know how the former left-wing-turned-rationalist Dennis Miller would feel about you appropriating his material ;-)

StuartD · 03-27-2003, 11:56 PM

ok... look... any way you want to slice the cake here.... Bush went and did his own thing. Without approval... he decided to do his own thing.... plain and simple.

People... you judge him whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.

I say a democracy is a good thing... people vote on a situation and a solution... the majority wins the vote as it is probably the best for all concerned.

One person decided to go against the vote.... then there's no real point in a democracy is there?

Bush will get re-elected.... providing he gets Saddam and can make the media show this big eutopia that comes over Iraq once he's gone.

If Bush fails at getting Saddam like he does in everything else he's tried to do... then who knows. He might just persuade people to vote him in so he can "finish the job".

Economy, crime rate, homeless... none of it will matter. Because no one can talk about anything other than the war, because that's the only thing that television stations will let you know about.

When it comes down to an election, it'll be.... a vote based on 2 options.
Check here if you think he's an idiot
Check here if you think he's a hero

It won't matter who's else on the ballot either. That's all it will boil down to.

Pidgin · 03-28-2003, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by StuartD
ok... look... any way you want to slice the cake here.... Bush went and did his own thing. Without approval... he decided to do his own thing.... plain and simple.
People... you judge him whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.
I say a democracy is a good thing... people vote on a situation and a solution... the majority wins the vote as it is probably the best for all concerned.

... Democracy? His-own-thing? Without approval?

Let me get this right..
* Bush is the president of the US of A?
* He got elected democratically? (not to talk about the bipartisan support he has for his actions with the people of the USA)
* Under this democracy - his obligation is to serve HIS country? (last I checked the russians, french, germans and syrians - and canadians for that matter - did not vote for the presidency of the united states)
* Under that US political system - he approved his actions and budget?
He got it approved with the army, secretery of defense, CIA/FBI/NSA/CNN/KFC/me?
* He is now with many other (more than 40) countries taking an act that little oppose to due to reasons that has to do with non-personal-gain reasons?
* He is acting to execute the 1441 UN resolution which was approved by 100% of the UN security council?

I think you take European media too much for granted.

But let me understand it ever better. IF the UN had voted to go to war - then the war would have been right and just? That means morally right is what the UN votes on?

When (god forbid) someone tries to rape your daughter (you don't have one so its clearly hypotetical) don't wait for a popular vote before blowing his head. The right thing to do is the right thing to do even if not popular or voted upon.

in 1981 Israel bombarded the Iraqi nuclear reactor. It was very unpopular, was not approved by the holy UN and was condemmed by the entire world.
I am not sure I asked - but did you say thank-you Israel already? (cause most of the world aready did ny now) If not - its about time you realize you better be unpopular and alive than prude, popular and dead.

So - are saying that taking down a tyrant and brutal dictator who tried to assasinate a president of the US and continuously tries to develop WMD and has used it in the past and which supports terrorism in more than the financial way and which executes his opponents - this is the WRONG thing to do? Just because some countries are affraid to take an active role in that?

(and don't kid yourself into believing that anyone really believes that Inspections or diplomacy really works with Saddam. You are WAY smarter than that - that I know for a fact)

Pidgin · 03-28-2003, 01:11 AM

P.S.

Quote:

Originally posted by StuartD
I say a democracy is a good thing... people vote on a situation and a solution... the majority wins the vote as it is probably the best for all concerned.

You refer to a vote in the UN?
When a country like Syria is in the security council??? A country which has NOTHING to do with democracy and 100% to do with Terror?
I see.. Democracy at its best bro

StuartD · 03-28-2003, 01:31 AM

So then what you're saying is that you don't believe in democracy? You don't believe that all parties involved should get a fair and equal vote in all matters pertaining to them?

That when everyone gets an equal vote, and a concensus is reached.... that's it's invariably wrong?

ric knows nina · 03-28-2003, 02:54 AM

what's the use in having a sovereign nation if you must submit to the general will of the UN? I didn't vote any UN officials into office. Nations would no longer be independent, and that is dangerous. If the UN doesn't like what we're doing, take a vote and condemn us. It wouldn't change a thing really. We'll do what we think is in our best interest. We don't have to agree with consensus among other nations.

People always assumed that the UN was really a function of the US govt. Now we see that it's a waffle house, waffling over important world issues. I think the world is shocked to see a US president take a stand after 8 years of vague waffling by Clinton.

12clicks · 03-28-2003, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by twinkley
So.... the booing was definitely uncalled for I think ....

However...

I APPLAUD your PM for having the BALLZ to stand up to our tyrant.... errr president. Okay, so he didnt make the choice you would have - dyonisus has a point - you are not the only person he represents, and I have to imagine he is going with the majority - unlike OUR president who has completely ignored what the majority of people here want, and has attacked iraq anyways, without the approval of the UN causing untold future problems....

twinkley

I know I'm a bit late to this thread but I notice that the above clap trap was let go and as a thinking American, I feel the need to respond.

Anyone who would refer to our president as a tyrant, should learn to quiet down until she's finished with the 6th grade and has a better understanding of politics and the world around her.
And as for your dopey comment that our president has ignored the majority goes, please, stop embarrassing yourself. the last poll I saw had an 80% approval rating for the war.
Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean the rest of us don't.
We just happen to be better informed.
Americans also will not be bound to the UN. We don't have to abide by the rules of a body of idiots and sadly, that's what most of the world is made up of.