How will lower payouts affect you?

[Max Sweet]

However the real question is what percentage of the market is made up of seasoned masturbators? I would imagine that masturbation addicts are a small portion of the population.

Well the % of hardcore consumers is probably smaller but remember - all it takes is one great movie/orgasm to turn a newbie into an addict

If its YOUR content that does it.. you have a member for life!

[Orbitalz]

hey, I've just finished reading all the replies to this topic and here's my 2.5c:


In a way, I believe the new threshold for chargebacks set by visa is inspiring in a way. It loudly tells the adult sponsors that it is time to increase the strength and intergrity of your business model. It also provides a saying that we are a closed industry that doesn't allow the potential customer to see what he are she wants untill your buy it.

The sponsor Topbucks reflects this situation in a postive way, by allowing the surfer to tour the members sections of their paysites.

I would like to see all sponsors provide this type of assurance for their potential customers.

And also I believe a lower rebill rate for their customers will be a successful solution in the longrun for their overall business. Cuz like it was said earlier in this topic, the paysites should not rebill at $39.95 a month. Especially if your content is not exclusive. Just because this sponsor sets it rebill rate at $39.95 doesn't mean you have to to. I believe a reasonable rebill rate would be $24.95 or less. For shitsakes cable internet cost $39.95 a month. Why would I pay for a pornsite rebilled at the same rate when it only has minimal amount of content.


Anything else.... ONe sec.

ah, True this may lower the overall payout amount for webmasters but it renders a satisfactory return for customers.


My conclusion is that sponsors should see this 1% chargeback tolerence as a birth to a new avenue that allows the adult industry to shape in a better more constructive and secure form, while providing a much more satisfying experience for their customers. instead of having sponsors competing for who has the highest payout rate, why not rely on who is the one with the most exclusive content. Who is the one with the best "open members section tour". Who is the one that doesn't charge the customer a retarded amount. Who is the one with the provides customers with respect to the amount that they are paying. And who is the one that balances their business pratice between Customers rebill rates & Affiliate commission rate.

[Danny_C]

Originally posted by twinkley
Yes, it sucks that payouts are being lowered - however, if you have good traffic, you can easily use a good recurring program and make just as much if not more.

twinkley

I'd like to see some numbers to support this theory. I'm not challenging it... but all the numbers I've ever seen thrown around indicate otherwise, even at a reduced payout per signup.

Something I've noticed: I've been asked by several partnerships for traffic, and I've had to tell them no, because at the moment, I only send to PPS programs. On the few occasions that they've said, "Ok, I'll pay you per signup," I've been offered, at most, $20.

If they can only pay me $20 per signup, then why should I expect to make more money from them? And if I can make more money by sending to a partnership than PPS, then why don't they go ahead and pay per signup and keep that extra recurring money for themselves?

[JohnIP]

My My My My My…Lots of opinions on this board from knowleable folks trin to make sense of a market change. There’s really two issues to deal with …how to react to the “cold” and how to prepare and prevent yourself from getting more colds in the future

Ive been in this Biz of 7 years…experiencing, surviving and growing my company through change after change. This one is indeed one of the larger changes. I agree with a lot of what Toolz, Cyndie and Brad have said. Some disagreement on the flavor and tone.

Bottom line is if your gonna place blame or look at the cause for the current condition it ALWAYS lies with the source of the $$$ in Business. Sponsor’s caused this problem…nobody else…unethical sponsors that wanted a quick buck…semi ethical sponsors that felt they had to play to compete…ethical sponsors that supported a system of competitive reciprocal welfare that let a crummy business model survive for as long as it has. That’s why there’s turmoil and that’s why theses disruptions in the time continuum …and it will continue to occur until the base structure is fixed….and merely changing price points AINT the answer to THAT problem.

What do I mean by competitive reciprocal welfare. It means propping up your competitors business in order to make a buck yourself. When was the last time you went to Sears and while walkin out of the store they handed you a Brochure for the same line of products at JC Penny’s and Sears expected JC Penny’s to do the same for them each paying one other a commission(ie Exit Consoles). When was the last time at the Cash register in Sears, when buying your favorite Bob Vial product…you were offered the opportunity to buy a similar product sold by J C Penny’s and Sears expected JC Penny’s to do the same for them each paying one other a commission(ie Cross Sells).

Crazy …Nuts …unheard of right….but that’s what this piece of the porn industry does. Hell its not even done in the regular porn industry…Does Larry expect Christy Hefner to sell subscription ads for Hustler in Playboy on commission?... does he think that’s a good thing for his business…I don’t think soooo

Now some of you I’m sure can make excuses for the practice...offer up theories about how this business is different…write me dissertations about how everybody makin money together and havin a “Good Time” is really way cool

But the bottom line is this practice AINT GOOD BUSINESS, and is one of the largest contributing factors to this industries problems. It fly’s in the face of the immutable laws of how people run a good business (Sorry a bit of a Carl Sagen moment there

Can you, under specific curcumstances and conditions, make alot of $$$ doin it …sure…but not forever. Deriving large percentages of your revenue through reciprocal agreement with your competitors , a poor business practice established early on in online porn biz, like a VAST number of companies large and small do in this business, is bad business and only serves to let the weak hang on...the scammers continue to have a hay day..and keeps this industry in constant turmoil and keeps it from TRULY maturing into its own.

[Max Sweet]

If they can only pay me $20 per signup, then why should I expect to make more money from them? And if I can make more money by sending to a partnership than PPS, then why don't they go ahead and pay per signup and keep that extra recurring money for themselves?

The reason is this: for members to be worth $30-$45 each you usually have to wait about a year. Most new partnership programs don't have the deep pockets to pay you out at $30/join up front and then have to wait up to a year for their return. By paying you $20 up front they usually have to wait only 2-3 months (depending on site quality) for their return so its more feasible...

That said we have webmasters in our partnership program that have rebilling members from over 2 years ago. They stopped sending traffic but keep getting paid on rebills... after 2 years (I did the math) they ended up getting paid almost $45 per join. Now the downside of this is you have to wait 2 years. The upside is you get a steady stream of small revenue even if you stop working and take a vacation already

[BobbyR]

We aren't planning any immediate changes with 4freebucks. The goal is and always will be to offer the best per click value for our affiliates. The advice I would give to webmasters in this environment is to stop worrying about conversions and the reduction in payouts. Look at your bottom line at the end of the day. Entrust your traffic to the sponsors that make you the most money for your clicks. I would also get more educated on geo-sorting traffic and how to optimize international traffic, instead of just sending it off to one dialer.

I look forward to the changes this is going to bring to our industry. I like the idea of the sponsors thinking less about the webmaster and more about the surfer who is actually a consumer/customer not just a transaction and unique in an admin panel. By servicing the customer before the webmaster you end up offering both of them a better product.

We wouldn't all be here if surfers weren't shopping for adult content. They will pay for it if we stop giving out for free. And they will actually stay a member maybe even longer than a month if we can just offer them a good product worth sticking around for.


I agree with LAJ in sponsors considering the ROI for paid advertising, be it PPC and PPI compared the cost of payout to webmasters. We are already starting to see this shift with programs developing a mix of webmaster traffic and paid traffic.

I also agree with John in how eventually we may see less traffic trading and sharing of information between sponsors as competition gets tight and margins get even tighter. Traffic will be more golden than ever and a trade would really have to be worth it. After all, most of the sponsor traffic comes from the same sources. Every sponsor would rather go straight to the source if they can rather then get the same traffic recycled through another sponsors exit chain.

I don't think if this as a 'sky is falling' situation at all. Change is always good. Give it a couple months. I think everyone will be doing just fine.

[baddog]

Originally posted by SinEmpire
That's politics for you... as far as I'm concerned this is still a right wing conservative christian conspiracy.

Brad

I find it sad, and almost scary that you might really feel that way.

Christian conspiracy indeed.

[Evil Chris]

Sure. And Oswald killed Kennedy.

[dyonisus]

With how new the Internet and Online billing is, and how quickly WE in the industry have been able to adapt evolve and squeeze maximum profits out of it I am surprised there are not more moves like this by the Banks and processors alike.

Let's face it, Toolz is right, the Webmaster's race for higher payouts, the sponsors urgency to meet and beat the competition is exactly why we should have expected changes like these and more.

I believe the only thing VISA is doing is eliminating Fraud. Ask yourself, who are the ones that are worried? The guys relying on actual recurring sales to quality programs with content rich members areas. OR Those who rely on milking current trends and changing business models rapidly to get the quick turnover.

Contrary to industry rumour, customers are not all "cattle". When there is so much out there and so many ways of getting what you want as a consumer, you become more discerning in what you buy. Sure you may not read the fine print when you are ready to blow your load over a hot chick in a great tour offering free 30 min passes, but you can bet when that company proceeds to hit your Credit card multiple times without provocation, you are going stand up and take notice!

Originally posted by Cyndalie


Programs that offer mutliple types of sites and payouts I think will survive, because they have more internal structure to decide what traffic they allow to hit what type of payment forms as well as create more avenues for conversions without having to send the traffic away...

I would just add

Programs that learn the value of their traffic and what it means to have content rich members areas are by far richer then those who dont. Customer Service, diversifying the ways a person can earn profits with their traffic through your program it all pays off over time.

OF COURSE -- Contingency plans are in place, companies are rallying and soon there will be another race for the gold. I'm a survivor, and at this point I am in it for the long haul!!

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by Danny_C
I'd like to see some numbers to support this theory. I'm not challenging it... but all the numbers I've ever seen thrown around indicate otherwise, even at a reduced payout per signup.

Something I've noticed: I've been asked by several partnerships for traffic, and I've had to tell them no, because at the moment, I only send to PPS programs. On the few occasions that they've said, "Ok, I'll pay you per signup," I've been offered, at most, $20.

If they can only pay me $20 per signup, then why should I expect to make more money from them? And if I can make more money by sending to a partnership than PPS, then why don't they go ahead and pay per signup and keep that extra recurring money for themselves?

Danny, I just noticed your comments above. I fully understand where you work, and the company line you need to take on this matter. By the way, I respect that as well.
As you know I have been around quite awhile myself. I have worked mainly with revshare/partnership sites and programs over the years, so I am familiar with them. However I'm also very informed of how pps programs work too. They both have their merits for sure. Siccash absolutely refuses to send a click to revshare and that's their right of policy. I have been trying to get a few clicks out of Brad Shaw for years. He will attest to that. I've never once approached him with anything but solid ideas that would only put money in his pocket too.

Diversification goes a long way. Any investment broker will tell you this too. But then again, maybe this old argument boils down to trust.