Why do people waste time on anti-war protests? - Page 2

Special_K · 02-17-2003, 03:08 PM

>They just walk the streets with signs say war-is-bad or bush-is-a-killer. Most of it is pure ignorance..

????

Who is more ignorant, protestors or the people who sit on their couch and get all their knowledge from shows like CNN and Entertainment tonight? I would bet that 'most' protestors understand the situation and its implications much more than the later bunch.

You have to respect people who stand up for what they believe in. The peace protest was a world wide event, and if it can make people stop and think and ask the right questions then I think they have done the world good.

Pidgin · 02-17-2003, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Special_K
>Who is more ignorant, protestors or the people who sit on their couch and get all their knowledge from shows like CNN and Entertainment tonight? I would bet that 'most' protestors understand the situation and its implications much more than the later bunch.

You have to respect people who stand up for what they believe in. The peace protest was a world wide event, and if it can make people stop and think and ask the right questions then I think they have done the world good.

Starting with the respect issue - read my posts. I said time after time I respect it and value it. So saying I have to respect it is pointless. (as I said there is respect and there is value)
dyonisus and Danny_C and others: I am not saying you are ignorant people or don't know shit about nothing. Having an opinion (even if different than mine) is sometimes better than not having opinion at all. But just saying "war" is bad because innocent get hurt is a superficial analysis of the situation imho.
As to CNN/E/MTV - What i think is that the difference between the two groups you mentioned (as a general rule) is that one is at home and the other is at the streets - what I think is - both watch the same channels

I realize that its harder to form a substantiated opinion on things when you are so far and disassociate from it as people in the UK and US are.
Nonetheless - I think that it is invigorating and blessed that some people take actions showing they hate violence and wars.

My question is about the different reasons some people do that.
1. Some are against sending their own soldiers to what they think others should do
2. Some are against war no matter the consequences of inaction
3. Some think Saddam is not that bad and there is no proof he did anything wrong and therefore no one should ask him to disarm etc.. and he is not so bad for his people if he is given the chance and sanctions are lifted
4. Some think its the task of the Iraqi people to help themselves, and Saddam is indeed evil but not a threat at all and has nothing to do with terrorism (and his financing of families of suicide bombers for example is only humanitarian aid)
5. Some think the west can convince Saddam its best to disarm by talking to him and giving him economical incentives and PR'ing peace and democracy
6. Some think the inspectors will manage to sweep the entire Iraq and dismantle his weapons one by one leaving Iraq clean from WMD and that will create a chain effect
7. Some don’t really think and just think protests are fun
Do you know more groups?

dyonisus and Danny_C - I didn't understand to which group you belong? Group 5? or maybe to a different group I didnt mention?

(ps. dyonisus: as to me having an opinion or two - true. but so do you. no? as to be being fixated on my opinion. well, with some I do, with some I don't. But changing my mind comes from reasonong, not from protest of others or the numbers of protestors)

ARiA · 02-17-2003, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Special_K
>They just walk the streets with signs say war-is-bad or bush-is-a-killer. Most of it is pure ignorance..

????

Who is more ignorant, protestors or the people who sit on their couch and get all their knowledge from shows like CNN and Entertainment tonight? I would bet that 'most' protestors understand the situation and its implications much more than the later bunch.

You have to respect people who stand up for what they believe in. The peace protest was a world wide event, and if it can make people stop and think and ask the right questions then I think they have done the world good.

yep. I was there and I dont think people are being ignorant, they were questioning motive. isn't that our right? the freedom to question and voice our concerns??

Pidgin · 02-17-2003, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ARiA
yep. I was there and I dont think people are being ignorant, they were questioning motive. isn't that our right? the freedom to question and voice our concerns??

Yep - a right we should all protect as vigorously as we protect our lives.
But what did they question? And who did they question?? other protestors???

dyonisus · 02-17-2003, 05:16 PM

I dont protest war because I am disassociated from it, I protest it because I am against violence of any nature. Should a war come to North American soil, (and I believe that inevitably it will, with far more dire consequences then 9/11) then I will still be opposed to the violence and fighting.

I am aware that Iraq would bomb Isreal given half a chance, but I am also aware that the US wants this war for reasons that extend beyond the salvation of humanity. I am not going to choose the lives of Isreali's over the lives of Iraqi's based on the fact that there is a dictator ruling one of the countries involved.

History has taught humanity nothing over the years. We all have to live in PEACE or how can any of the worlds nations be expected to survive??

I guess the bottomline for me here is this, WHY DOES VIOLENCE ALWAYS HAVE TO BE THE ANSWER?? Whether on the streets in a "free" country or in the battles that exist between Isreal, Palestine, Al Qaeda, Islam, protestant or Catholic... What we should be fighting for is the right to exist in a world where we can feel safe to be ourselves no matter where we are or who we are.

Maybe I am too idealistic, but, I dont see the death of 1000's as an answer to anything if the US wants to disarm Iraq they should disarm the world including themselves!!! But that wont happen because then they would have to sink the $$$ for the armed services etc into real programs like fighting poverty and health care etc!

That is the category I am in.

ARiA · 02-17-2003, 05:21 PM

apparently there are more than a few people who aren't buying the bullshit they are being fed. everyone is ready to drop bombs and hate. you can hardly help but want to- look at what you see on tv. all day everyday- war this war that revenge- we're going to go after these terrorists BLAH-
misplaced fear. Everyone is hyped and ready to go- Bush will get his war.. but at what cost. I am just concerned.
I try and keep an open mind and ear, and a little common sense.
if a war is necessary, so be it. is it?
I wanted to hear what there was to be said.. by people with independent thinking minds, a collective group of people that had something to say.
to answer your question- they questioned Bush and his motives.. oil?
that being said- I love and support my country.

Pidgin · 02-17-2003, 05:33 PM

dyonisus:
Nice Ideals I would embrace any day if were realistic. Really.
We have this group of orthorox people in Israel called Hasidic. They believe that the bible will protect them against their enemies and terrorists and they don't need army (therefore they dont agree to go to the army).. Do you think we should let them test this theory?

You seem to present this war as intentional aim to kill 1000s of innocent people. You dont seem to think Iraq might be a real threat. I wonder why you think all the reports you hear from so many intelligence agencies including US, UK, Israel, France, Italy, Germeny and others are wrong and you know better?

Quote:

Maybe I am too idealistic, but, I dont see the death of 1000's as an answer to anything if the US wants to disarm Iraq they should disarm the world including themselves!!! But that wont happen because then they would have to sink the $$$ for the armed services etc into real programs like fighting poverty and health care etc!

hmm.. just to make it clear....
You think its a good idea, which you support - that the US disarms totally and immediately regardless if other countries develop WMD? You think there is a chance "other" countries will see the good idea and will do the same and under no circumstances hurt you in any way?
I can only wish your ideals were right.

Aria:
Protest is not meant for questioning. Bush was not there to answer their questions. As to the UK protests - Bush is not even in the UK as far as know

The only people they could be questioning are other protestors. I think its more sensible to ask people like you on boards what you think since you think differently.
So lets not kid outrselves. Protests are not intelligent way to question the facts, thats what debates are for.

Pidgin · 02-17-2003, 05:35 PM

Aria - Beautiful avatar

Vid Vicious · 02-17-2003, 06:35 PM

I'm lucky to be in the adult bizz because ...

Vid Vicious · 02-17-2003, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vid Vicious
I'm lucky to be in the adult bizz because ...

nuff said!

Danny_C · 02-18-2003, 11:14 AM

XXXManager: I don't belong to any of those groups you listed. I belong to the group that wants to make the world a safer place to live, rather than destabilizing, bombing, and fuelling hatred toward the U.S.

And don't worry about offending me... it takes more than a disagreement about an issue... especially one with no obvious black or white. Of course people are going to disagree.

Anybody watch Donahue last night, by any chance? It was interesting to see Donahue and Pat Buchanan agreeing for half the show... on the issue of Iraq.

Pidgin · 02-18-2003, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Danny_C
And don't worry about offending me... it takes more than a disagreement about an issue... especially one with no obvious black or white. Of course people are going to disagree.

Good. I agree. Disagreements the basis of free speech. If everybody would agree on everything there would be no need for free speech

I mean no offense and take no offense in matters of opinions. The fact that I care hearing and responding shows (I think) my respect and value of other people's opinions.

Quote:

Originally posted by Danny_C
XXXManager: I don't belong to any of those groups you listed. I belong to the group that wants to make the world a safer place to live, rather than destabilizing, bombing, and fuelling hatred toward the U.S.

The group you described does not relate to anti-iraq-conflict protest directly. It is not realistic just "wanting" peace and safety and love without realizing there are some who wish differently. I mean - you can wish it, but sometimes you should act differently. Trying to clarify what I mean - I will ask again: Are you saying US should not have helped Kuwait in the last invasion since Kuwait is not US and fighting Iraq back then was ant of agression and not love and peace? Do you suggest US should stop supporting Israel in the middleeast since that might create hate towards the US among terrrorists? Would you say that US should withdraw from Afghanistan and let the Taliban regain control over there since the Taliban is angry at the US for kicking it out of power? do you suggest to disarm NATO since NATO is an army coalition and armies as you suggest are bad things by principal.

Quote:

Originally posted by Danny_C
Anybody watch Donahue last night, by any chance? It was interesting to see Donahue and Pat Buchanan agreeing for half the show... on the issue of Iraq.

Nope, didn't watch (what channel?). Only thing I have heard is that Buchanan is an asshole who doesn't know shit

don't know him though.
What did they agree on??

Vid Vicious · 02-18-2003, 11:36 AM

Opps my bad .. wrong thread ... LOL

Pidgin · 02-18-2003, 05:12 PM

Hey Vid bro

Your a junkie

Now I know why your former Avatar was "dead bud walking"

MegaGiga · 02-19-2003, 11:37 AM

Well despite the huge anti war demos in england and all those people that were interviewed saying that this proves that the majority of people are against the war a poll on sky today shows only 28% are against the war now!

The other options/results in the poll are..

Attack now: 35%
Second resolution: 35%

Draw your own conclusions..

Pidgin · 02-19-2003, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MegaGiga
Well despite the huge anti war demos in england and all those people that were interviewed saying that this proves that the majority of people are against the war a poll on sky today shows only 28% are against the war now!
The other options/results in the poll are..
Attack now: 35%
Second resolution: 35%
Draw your own conclusions..

Interesting. So 1.5M protestors in the UK are not a majority?

Anyway - that does not matter as well. The descision about war is not decided upon in the newspapers, tv, saloon talks or the streets. It is decided by people who's job is to analyze the situation and evaluate danger vs. gain. (or is forced upon you). Hopes are that these people know what they are doing.

Pidgin · 02-20-2003, 06:32 AM

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/
MUHAHA
Quote: "NOT WORRIED, MR BLAIR? You should be!"
Thats one hell of a peacefull bunch running this anti-war site

Pidgin · 02-20-2003, 11:55 PM

Ok..
I had enough of this shit

http://www.brain-terminal.com/articl...e-protest.html (check the video there)
and some reality show

http://www.lulop.com/site/appbyid.php3?id=559#
http://www.lulop.com/site/appbyid.php3?id=560#
http://www.lulop.com/site/appbyid.php3?id=407#

Very educated and intelligent bunch. Real caring people like you suggest

I think they have the key to the solution. Who is more suitable than this endless fountain of IQ to be ruling the world? LMAO

I had enough. All the protestors I've seen so far are DUMB.
Maybe there are some smart ones.

The more i see these anti-war protestors the less respect I have for them. I think the people I saw so far ashame the 0.01% of the demonstrators who REALLY know what they protest against

Can someone show me a video of at least ONE smart person protesting against the war and explaining his position smartly?

Quoting from one of the protestors in the UK (I'm sure she is legally immiggrant and a proud UK resident - hehe)
Quoting:
"1,2,3,4 - we dont want your racist state
5,6,7,8 - Palestine is here to stay"
LOL

and whats the deal with danny glover?
Since when did he start doing standup comedy?
Is this man on drugs or what? LOL
He mumbles more than Bush