Hungryman, another year and you haven't paid your debt

[cdsmith]

Lightning Jim confirmed to me last night that he indeed paid $2500 for the techiemedia.com design that Bhutocracy did.


Paul, your evasiveness and lies are going to strangle your business if you continue like this. I don't want to see that happen, but if you force my hand I will carry on speading the truth about you. You called this a "shakedown" on another thread. Paul, this is far from a shakedown. This is about you not paying for the hard work of others, it is about you reneging on business agreements and leaving some good people high and dry. Let's call it what it really is Paul. Let's be real here.




NOTE TO ALL: Anyone having a claim against Hungryman needs to contact me today. Provide details of your claims, amounts owed, and any other pertinant details you can recall about the work you did. If you have email or ICQ records of anything Paul said that would show he was aware of the debt or agreed to pay you, please save those files/emails now.

contact me:

admin at cdsmodels dot com
31024634

[cdsmith]

Let me make something perfectly clear for everyone. There is no malicious intent on my part, I have no hidden personal agenda for taking this issue public. This isn't some sort of "shakedown" as Hungryman has suggested on other threads. It is simply about fixing something that is wrong, it is about making things right and doing what is right.

Newsflash: weather Paul is your friend or not, cheating designers out of their rightfully earned fees is wrong. Period. No one with any level of sanity can argue with that.

I do not wish to have to organize a lawsuit if it can be helped, but as of now I am certainly exploring that option. I would rather see that Paul has come to his senses and has decided to simply cover his debts and that will be that.

If any of you consider yourselves to be Paul's friend, I suggest instead of coming on here and scoffing at me or sitting by silently you try urging your friend to honor his debts, and this will all go away. If you are truly a friend to him then BE a friend and help encourage him to do what is right.

[Vid Vicious]

Feynman .. do us all a favour and shut that Verbal Diarea Mouth of yours ...

Do not speak of anything you don't know about .. Keep in mind your basing your information on the lies that Paul told you .. How can All the Webmasters he has screwed be wrong ...

It sees that you and Paul seem to think that there is a conspiracy agaisnt him .. He's a fuckin angel that never did any wrong to any one .. GROW UP ... THis has been going on for years. And will contuinue to go on well after your out of the picture .. OS please do us all a favour and do what you do best .. BLOW

[cdsmith]

Day 4 since I asked Hungryman to honor his debts. The adventure continues, as he has chosen to hide and evade rather than own up to his past mistakes.


I will continue to do what needs to be done.

[Panky]

CD Smith, I'm sure I'm not the only one who is getting a bit annoyed, but this is my personal opinion.

I choose to participate on certain boards because they do not contain the 3 ring circus of GFY. I know of at least 3 boards that I routinely participate on, that you have brought the GFY mentality to, including XNations.

It's getting really annoying.

___________________________________________

As a mod, I have the responsibility of keeping the members happy. I know the members here. The members here have set the standards themselves as to what is acceptable behavior and what is not. We pride ourselves in the fact XNations does not contain the keyboard warrior GFY mentality. It's my responsibility to insure the friendly atmosphere continues.

This type of behavior is not welcomed here on XNations.

[Funbrunette]

I've tried to stay out of it...I let it go for a while, but it is getting a bit ridiculous. Can we kiss and make up?

If you can prove to me that you've agreed to resolve this issue like men (I must have proof...like a picture) I promise to post a picture of my breasts (that should get Emanuelle going...lol) isn't that a great incentive?!?

Game on?

[webgurl]

Originally posted by cool1
Lots of views, but not so many posts.

i'm just noisy , i have nothing to say and don't really know whats going on , However i read the HungryMan Issue Last Year , so i guess the SEGA continues .........

[chodadog]

Originally posted by Panky
CD Smith, I'm sure I'm not the only one who is getting a bit annoyed, but this is my personal opinion.

I choose to participate on certain boards because they do not contain the 3 ring circus of GFY. I know of at least 3 boards that I routinely participate on, that you have brought the GFY mentality to, including XNations.

It's getting really annoying.

___________________________________________

As a mod, I have the responsibility of keeping the members happy. I know the members here. The members here have set the standards themselves as to what is acceptable behavior and what is not. We pride ourselves in the fact XNations does not contain the keyboard warrior GFY mentality. It's my responsibility to insure the friendly atmosphere continues.

This type of behavior is not welcomed here on XNations.

This annoys you? A few people looking out for their friends that have been ripped off for thousands of dollars? What is acceptable behaviour on Xnations? By silencing us, you're basically condoning Hungryman's actions.

I see a lot of talk about how this should have been handled privately, and i would totally agree, had all attempts to handle this privately not already been exhausted. You need to remembre that this entire fiasco has been going on for over two years. Hungryman makes a lot of promises, but he never makes good.

There are no keyboard warriot antics going on. We're just letting everyone know what Hungryman is all about. It is a fair warning to other designers and potential clients alike.

[cdsmith]

Originally posted by chodadog
This annoys you? A few people looking out for their friends that have been ripped off for thousands of dollars? What is acceptable behaviour on Xnations? By silencing us, you're basically condoning Hungryman's actions.

I see a lot of talk about how this should have been handled privately, and i would totally agree, had all attempts to handle this privately not already been exhausted. You need to remembre that this entire fiasco has been going on for over two years. Hungryman makes a lot of promises, but he never makes good.

There are no keyboard warriot antics going on. We're just letting everyone know what Hungryman is all about. It is a fair warning to other designers and potential clients alike.

I'm really sorry you are annoyed Jennifer, but that really is beside the point. Like I've told other friends of Paul's, you would be showing yourself as more of a friend to him by urging him to honor his debts and honoring his word.

People need to know about Paul, period. Maybe some regular posters are a bit tired of hearing about it, but no one is forcing them to click on my threads are they? No.

All I'm doing is telling the truth. I have no hidden agenda here. I just want Paul to do what is right. What we ALL KNOW is right.

You are attempting to liken this cause to "GFY drama".... that is not the case at all. I simply want this issue resolved, no more no less. It is up to Paul as to when it gets resolved, he can decide to become more agreeable and sensible at any time, but so far he has exhibited only arrogance, defiance, and evasiveness. As long as he takes that kind of attitude I have no choice but to continue letting people know about this issue.

[chodadog]

We're keeping the discussion limited to one thread. We're not hounding every one of his posts. We're not out to change the atmosphere of the board.

[cdsmith]

Originally posted by Funbrunette
I've tried to stay out of it...I let it go for a while, but it is getting a bit ridiculous. Can we kiss and make up?

If you can prove to me that you've agreed to resolve this issue like men (I must have proof...like a picture) I promise to post a picture of my breasts (that should get Emanuelle going...lol) isn't that a great incentive?!?

Game on?

FB, I'm usually in a more joking mood on other topics, but on this one I'll say that it is nothing to make light of. It is a sensitive issue that I have tried to handle privately in the past. I was forced to briefly take it to the boards just over a year ago, after which Paul became cooperative and fully agreed to honor his debts to the designers involved. I even offered him help with his TGP which he happily accepted. I have extensive ICQ logs saved that corroborate this.

I remained silent and gave him the past year to make payments to Rikki Lee like he promised he would. He made zero payments to her over that time. Instead he chose to just think that it would all just "go away" magically. I'm sorry, but it doesn't work that way. You can't rip people off and then go on about your merry way and continue to do business in this community without someone standing up and calling you on it. Well, I'm calling him on it, and it should come as no shock to him, because I told him this would happen if he reneged on his agreements again.

It isn't about some beef between he and myself. It can't be settled with a hug and a handshake. I wish it were that simple. He can, however, put an end to this at any time.

[Panky]

I have no problem with a few people looking out for other people in the business and needing to spread the word about who to do business with and who not to.

If I wanted to silence you, I simply could have deleted all this entire thread and every thread after that at the slightest mention of your mission. But, guess what, I left it run.

I simply became annoyed for the fact that it wasn't other XNations members jumping in here and bumping your thread. It was mostly you and other people who joined here for no other reason than to give your mission some support. To me, that showed that the majority of XNations could really care less about what is going on. If they did, they would have posted and stated what they thought.

I have remained neutral throughout this whole thing, simply because this issue happened years ago, even before I knew Hungryman or used his services. I also know there is multiple sides to a story and I have no idea of knowing what is the truth and what is not. I wasn't there when this whole thing was taking place. I don't have inside knowledge. I know what you have said. I know what Paul has said.

But see now, I'm a bad person. You feel the need to start jumping in and attacking me simply because I carried PaySite Design in my sig. I've read the crap at PJ's. I'm sure it's bound to hit all the other boards in a few hours. I have removed my sig, but that isn't good enough for you. I'm still a target to you simply because I once carried his sig and used his services.

Besides, what the hell does my personal life have anything to do with this?

How the hell can I suddenly be responsible for someone elses actions that happened way before I ever knew him?

I just can't believe that you would stoop so low as to start attacking me. I have nothing to do with this stuff. But, I'm not in the cool crowd simply because I haven't posted and given you my support for your mission. I just didn't feel the need to jump on the bandwagon and be a part of something that I have no idea what is truth and what is lies from the parties involved. But, that makes me a bad person.

[cdsmith]

Originally posted by Panky
If I wanted to silence you, I simply could have deleted all this entire thread and every thread after that at the slightest mention of your mission. But, guess what, I left it run.

Should I thank you for allowing free speech and the truth to reign free? If so... thank you.

To me, that showed that the majority of XNations could really care less about what is going on. If they did, they would have posted and stated what they thought.

Maybe most of the regulars here are shying away because they know of your personal ties to Paul? Ya think?

Judging by the page views this thread is getting, they are reading it at any rate.

Originally posted by Panky
But see now, I'm a bad person. You feel the need to start jumping in and attacking me simply because I carried PaySite Design in my sig. I've read the crap at PJ's. I'm sure it's bound to hit all the other boards in a few hours. I have removed my sig, but that isn't good enough for you. I'm still a target to you simply because I once carried his sig and used his services.

See, that's where you are wrong Jennifer. I've always like you and have had no problems with you, you know that. I am not attacking you at all. What I am doing is identifying your nickname as being one that sometimes promotes Paul's business. Why am I doin that? Because people need to know how to identify Paul's business so they know to avoid it. People easily forget, especially when faced with someone other than "hungryman" telling them to hire him.

I have not said one harsh thing about you personally other than identifying you as an active promoter of "Hungryman". That will never change, I won't start slinging insults your way arbitrarily. That isn't my style nor is it my focus. All I want is for Paul to clear his debt thus honoring the word he gave to me last year.

Originally posted by Panky
Besides, what the hell does my personal life have anything to do with this?

Show me the post of where your personal life was attacked and I will deal with the person. But remember, if you are going to promote Paul or take his side in any way, people need to know the whole truth, and that includes them knowing that you have a personal interest in this because you are his girlfriend.

Originally posted by Panky
How the hell can I suddenly be responsible for someone elses actions that happened way before I ever knew him?

You aren't, and I'm not saying you are responsible.

Originally posted by Panky
I just can't believe that you would stoop so low as to start attacking me. I have nothing to do with this stuff. But, I'm not in the cool crowd simply because I haven't posted and given you my support for your mission. I just didn't feel the need to jump on the bandwagon and be a part of something that I have no idea what is truth and what is lies from the parties involved. But, that makes me a bad person.

Again, I'm not attacking you. All I have done is identify you as
A) someone who promotes Hungryman,
and B) Hungryman's girlfriend.
I have not said anything that is not true, and have not cast any disparaging remarks in your direction.
I'm not "stooping" to anything.
I am simply taking a hard stance on thievery. If you truly don't know the facts as you say, why not go read the thread on GFY, ignoring the posts of those that aren't involved directly and focusing in on the comments of the designers themselves? It's all there. It won't eat up most of your day to read.

Here is the link: http://board.gofuckyourself.com/show...hreadid=250118

Paul has been caught in several lies on that thread alone. No one can argue with the proof, it is hard to disbelieve so many people. I spoke to people like Lightning who are trusted and well-respected in this community, and he confirms the allegations made by Bhutocracy, you can contact Lightning on ICQ and confirm this yourself. Then there is the designers who have the original files of work that they were not paid for or paid lower than appropriate amounts for. The person that hired them was Paul, and that was AFTER Paul and Pensfan has parted ways.


How anyone can read all that and still be confused as to what the deal is here is beyond me.


How many ways can I say this Jennifer? If you want this to end, if you are truly a friend to Paul, you will urge him to do the right thing and honor his debt and be a man about this, and it will all be over. I will even post public notices that he has paid his debts if you want.


I am not hard to find, let me know if you can get Paul to come to his senses....

31024634
admin at cdsmodels dot com

[Panky]

I'm well aware of everything that is going on.

Yes, at one point I have carried PaySite Design in my sig. One of the reasons was, I didn't have anything of my own to carry in my sig.

The point is, you made a reference on PJ's that anytime a post gets brought up, I will be included in it as well because I am his girlfriend and at one point promoted his services.

What that does, is it will taint peoples minds. They will start judging me, not on my own merits, but simply because of my relationship.

I have removed all my sigs after this whole thing has begun, simply because I didn't want to be associated with this. I made the decision to no longer promote PaySite Design. I would appreciate from this point on, you keep my name out of this stuff.

This is between the designers and Paul. I was never a part of it. This stuff happened way before I even knew Paul. There's no reason for my name to be brought into this. The sig is removed. I don't promote PaySite Design, so just leave it at that.

[chodadog]

Panky, i don't think anyone is attacking you. I think CD was just pointing out that someone had decided to do something about a signautre pointing to paysitedesign/paysite-galleries. The email would have been the same regardless of who's signature it was, and CD's posting of it didn't come across as a personal attack, to me at least.

I'm sure that wasn't his intent. He just wanted to show that some people are waking up to Hungry's actions and are taking some action (minor as it may be).

And yes, there are two sides to every story. I've made bhutocracy's side abundantly clear. Did work. Received no payment whatsoever. I don't see how Hungryman's side of the story could differ at all. Besides, he won't even tell us his side of the story. He seems to dismiss it, and is expecting people to believe it just didn't happen.

I'd love to see the records that indicate hungry paid $1250 for that job to bhutocracy, or even the $500 when he lied to bhuto about the cost of the job. He didn't receive a cent. Not one.

Doesn't matter how old the situation is. It still hasn't been sorted, and that means the problem is still a current one.

[cdsmith]

Originally posted by Panky
I'm well aware of everything that is going on.

Yes, at one point I have carried PaySite Design in my sig. One of the reasons was, I didn't have anything of my own to carry in my sig.

The point is, you made a reference on PJ's that anytime a post gets brought up, I will be included in it as well because I am his girlfriend and at one point promoted his services.

What that does, is it will taint peoples minds. They will start judging me, not on my own merits, but simply because of my relationship.

I have removed all my sigs after this whole thing has begun, simply because I didn't want to be associated with this. I made the decision to no longer promote PaySite Design. I would appreciate from this point on, you keep my name out of this stuff.

This is between the designers and Paul. I was never a part of it. This stuff happened way before I even knew Paul. There's no reason for my name to be brought into this. The sig is removed. I don't promote PaySite Design, so just leave it at that.

No, what I meant by that was that every time I see anyone promoting Paul or Paul's sites I will identify that person. No more, no less. If there are a few posts of yours still lingering around on other boards where you have openly recommended Paul, I will very likely find them and post something to let people know the truth, if I haven't already.

I am not trying to be unfair, but make no mistake about it, if you promote a thief then in my view that means you support his theivery. I will therefore publicly identify anyone that I find promoting him or defending him or supporting him in any way. If you want to distance yourself from this, then start by helping me to end this as quickly as possible. I strongly urge his close friends to help him out by urging him to do the right thing by these designers who trusted him.

[cdsmith]

I have no idea of knowing what is the truth and what is not.

I'm well aware of everything that is going on.

It is these conflicting statements that has me a bit confused btw.



I don't intend to attack you or anyone. This isn't about attacking, it is about people knowing the truth. If you say you are no longer promoting him then you have nothing to worry about.

[Funbrunette]

Originally posted by cdsmith
FB, I'm usually in a more joking mood on other topics, but on this one I'll say that it is nothing to make light of. It is a sensitive issue that I have tried to handle privately in the past. I was forced to briefly take it to the boards just over a year ago, after which Paul became cooperative and fully agreed to honor his debts to the designers involved. I even offered him help with his TGP which he happily accepted. I have extensive ICQ logs saved that corroborate this.

I remained silent and gave him the past year to make payments to Rikki Lee like he promised he would. He made zero payments to her over that time. Instead he chose to just think that it would all just "go away" magically. I'm sorry, but it doesn't work that way. You can't rip people off and then go on about your merry way and continue to do business in this community without someone standing up and calling you on it. Well, I'm calling him on it, and it should come as no shock to him, because I told him this would happen if he reneged on his agreements again.

It isn't about some beef between he and myself. It can't be settled with a hug and a handshake. I wish it were that simple. He can, however, put an end to this at any time.

I know...I was just trying to lighten things up!

[Panky]

What right do you have to post my name on GFY?

You posted on GFY that Paul uses the name of Panky to post. WTF? I am the only one who uses my name.

You said in a previous post here that as long as I don't carry his sig and promote his services, I had nothing to worry about, but then my name appears stating that Hungryman uses my name.

WTF? I am not going to have my name ruined because of this stuff. I had nothing at all to do with this. These things happened way before I even knew or had a relationship with him.

Do you not understand that I am not responsible for his actions?

I removed my sig and stopped promoting him, but this isn't good enough for you. You feel the need to drag me into it. I never asked for this shit, nor do I deserve it.

All I want is to be left alone. I can't help you. This shit is not my problem and I should not have to pay for it. I can't have things tainted because of something someone else did.

Just leave me out of it! This isn't my fault. You have no right to lump my name into this because I once carried his sig. I stopped carrying his sig when I became aware of all this, but still you just can't let me be.

I'm guilty for being associated with him and it's bullshit. If I had done something to you on a personal or business level, that is one thing, but I never had.

I am my own person. Hungryman is not me. Just leave me the hell out of this.

[cdsmith]

I had already made that post before you brought it up here.

I did not say that paul uses your name to post. Let's keep our facts straight.
What the post says is this:
--------------------------------
"Nicknames that have been promoting Hungryman's business lately include:

paul1000
panky
-=HUNGRYMAN=-"
----------------------------------


The name "panky" appears on several other boards, you have made posts to others to recommend Paul for design work. I told you in my above post that I will identify all nicks that promote or recommend him to others. I don't want other designers to lose work because of any confusion about who is who.


Sorry, but I knew going into this that there would be some collateral dammage, but I think in your case it will be minimal. Remember Jennifer, I didn't cause all this to happen, Paul did.


Let's try that again....

Jennifer, I did not cause all this. PAUL did.


I won't mention your name or your nick in any further posts.

I do have trouble believing that you have no influence over Paul though. You just said "this shit is not my problem"..... I disagree. It is ALL of our problem, including you. Instead of telling me you are "annoyed" by my posts and yelling at me for pointing out that you have promoted Paul in past posts, you should be outraged by the blatant thievery he pulled on these designers, you should be OUTRAGED that his decietfulness is now causing you grief, and you should be yelling at him to do the right thing to make this go away.

If that doesn't happen soon, just know that the designers are going to send their proof of copyright infringement to Paul's host and if necessary thier upstream provider, and also Paul's ISP. We are going to try and have him shut down. I will also be talking with more of his past clients, because some of them are displaying what now amounts to stolen graphics. They are not going to be pleased. If you talk to Paul please make him understand that we are not playing around here, these are no longer just idle threats, it WILL happen. I intend to see this through to whatever end can be attained. Why? Because what Paul did was wrong, that's why.

I'm not just urging you, I am urging anyone that considers Paul a friend to try and get him to own up to his responsibility and pay these designers what he owes them.

[cdsmith]

Originally posted by Funbrunette
I was just trying to lighten things up!

I know..... and I would normally appreciate it, especially since you well know that you have always been one of my favorites.

I just wish that on this one issue I would see more people stating their opposition and outrage to the kind of thievery that has been described here. On ICQ everyone is vocal and supportive, but although there have been many good posts on various boards decrying Paul's behaviour, there needs to be more. He needs to see multitudes of webmasters and industry people stepping up and saying in no uncertain terms that what he did was wrong.

[Funbrunette]

Originally posted by cdsmith
I know..... and I would normally appreciate it, especially since you well know that you have always been one of my favorites.

I just wish that on this one issue I would see more people stating their opposition and outrage to the kind of thievery that has been described here. On ICQ everyone is vocal and supportive, but although there have been many good posts on various boards decrying Paul's behaviour, there needs to be more. He needs to see multitudes of webmasters and industry people stepping up and saying in no uncertain terms that what he did was wrong.

To be honest with you CD, I've tried to stay away from this one on purpose. I've made it my mission not to talk about it with anyone! I don't really know the story and quite frankly I haven't even really read the post I skimmed through it only because it's my responsibility as a moderator and owner of the board. Seems a lot of people are getting hurt and as much as I can be a bitch I don't like that! If I had one opinion it would be that Jennifer is her own person and should not be sucked into this. She is a moderator here at Xnations and she also happens to be a VERY smart woman! I just hope all this will be resolved quickly! I'm going to do what I said from the beginning and stay out of it! However I can't ban or ask anyone to stop posting...No one has complained to me about this thread...I'm sorry if people don't agree with my decision!

Good luck guys!

[cdsmith]

Originally posted by Funbrunette
To be honest with you CD, I've tried to stay away from this one on purpose. I've made it my mission not to talk about it with anyone! I don't really know the story and quite frankly I haven't even really read the post I skimmed through it only because it's my responsibility as a moderator and owner of the board. Seems a lot of people are getting hurt and as much as I can be a bitch I don't like that! If I had one opinion it would be that Jennifer is her own person and should not be sucked into this. She is a moderator here at Xnations and she also happens to be a VERY smart woman! I just hope all this will be resolved quickly! I'm going to do what I said from the beginning and stay out of it! However I can't ban or ask anyone to stop posting...No one has complained to me about this thread...I'm sorry if people don't agree with my decision!

Good luck guys!

As I said, I will not mention Jennifer or her board nick in any further posts. The few already made cannot be changed.

And I understand your position, although I know you would feel much differently if it were you or one of your good friends that was ripped off, especially if it happened at a time in your life when money was a serious issue. I understand your position, but unfortunately in this case I don't agree with it. Theft in our community is either wrong or it isn't.

[Funbrunette]

Originally posted by cdsmith
As I said, I will not mention Jennifer or her board nick in any further posts. The few already made cannot be changed.

And I understand your position, although I know you would feel much differently if it were you or one of your good friends that was ripped off, especially if it happened at a time in your life when money was a serious issue. I understand your position, but unfortunately in this case I don't agree with it. Theft in our community is either wrong or it isn't.

CD, It's my job as a moderator to be impartial besides do you really think this is going to change anything? I don't want to get involved period. I agree, Theft in our community is wrong, but so is shaving, plagiarism, child porn and yet it's there! As I've said previously I've only skimmed the threads (on this subject) on Xnations. How could I make an educated comment? I don't really know what the story is. That's all I've got to say on this! If this makes me the most hated person then so be it...

Please go post on another boards. I left other boards because of this sort of thing and I have joined xnations becuase people here do not carry on like with posts like you are flooding myself with. I read all that was posted on here and the other boards before I posted this here today. So save yourself the time and effort before you get flame spanked off this board.

EvilChris, FunB, Panky and other owners and mods of X-Nations

I think that the case was made by CDSmith and his cohort. If true, they should settle this in court, or in arbitration, where each could substantiate their claims and have the judge or an arbitrator decide.

On a board, NO ONE or NO BODY can arbitrate the conflict. It is NOT the place to take the conflict. It will lead to NO resolution. It is efficient to mention a conflict, to present the allegations of facts once on a board, but NOT to argue it over and over.

The plaintiffs backed themselves up in an intenable position: if for some reason Paul was genuinely not able to pay back, then, there is no true reparation they can do to the dammage done to Paul's reputation.

The board's readers are NOT arbitrator, notwithstanding what the plaintiff would like to believe (I stated why in my previous post: Paul has many satisfied customers who base their judgment and opinion on Paul's ability to deliver a good product).

If I were a mod, I would leave one post by each claimant where they presented their claims, allow one reply of the defendent for each of the claimant, delete the rest of the posts, close the thread and ban anyone or anybody attempting to re-open the subject.

my 2¢.

[bhutocracy]

Originally posted by monaro
Please go post on another boards. I left other boards because of this sort of thing and I have joined xnations becuase people here do not carry on like with posts like you are flooding myself with. I read all that was posted on here and the other boards before I posted this here today. So save yourself the time and effort before you get flame spanked off this board.

This is a great thread to strike off people to do business with should the opportunity ever arise, It's ONE thread mate.. get over it. No one's forcing you to read it. I'm over this myself.. so basically you're saying Xnation is a board of apologists? you can be a criminal and get away with it here because people don't care when others get ripped off? Jeez no wonder i didn't find this place sooner. Me and another person that got scammed live about 90 minutes south of you (a big factor in our getting done was probably that we were overseas here) Not that it's an enticing proposition we can meet for coffee and you can see for yourself how fake or annoying this "drama" is. Drama for drama's sake is a bad thing. This isn't fun.. I don't want to be here.. but i've been dragged into it.. I run programs now.. it's frankly embarrassing to have everything dragged up over unpaid design work. I just wish Paul would reply to me and sort this out.. it would literally take 5 seconds... I DON'T want the money owed to me... he knows that.

[chodadog]

Originally posted by Feynman
The plaintiffs backed themselves up in an intenable position: if for some reason Paul was genuinely not able to pay back, then, there is no true reparation they can do to the dammage done to Paul's reputation.

He damaged his own reputation by stealing. This wasn't a case of someone giving him a loan and not being able to pay it back 'cause he fell on hard times. He was paid money. He should have given the designers their cut right then. He shouldn't have spent any more than the half that was rightufully his. That's theft.

[cdsmith]

Originally posted by Funbrunette
CD, It's my job as a moderator to be impartial besides do you really think this is going to change anything? I don't want to get involved period. I agree, Theft in our community is wrong, but so is shaving, plagiarism, child porn and yet it's there! As I've said previously I've only skimmed the threads (on this subject) on Xnations. How could I make an educated comment? I don't really know what the story is. That's all I've got to say on this! If this makes me the most hated person then so be it...

As I said, I understand your position. I will say it again..... I understand your position.

Do I really think this is going to change anything?? Jeez FB, by that thinking then nothing is worth standing up for.

I believe some good can come out of this, yes. For one thing, it may make Paul less apt to pocket someone's money in future. It may alert several designers to avoid working for Paul. It may send a message to some people that they better watch how they do business because if they rip people off there could be consequences.


As for not knowing what the story is... the designers presented much of their facts on that GFY thread. Right in that thread alone Paul was caught in several lies. It's all right there for anyone to read.

Lastly, no one is hating on you. I hope you aren't taking my replies to you in the wrong context, I'm not mad at anyone, I'm not ranting loudly at anyone, I have been perfectly lucid, calm and factual throughout this process. But you have stated your opinion, and I am certainly then going to state what I think. No hate involved, you should know that already.

To anyone reading this far..... don't hate Funbrunette, don't hate Panky.... don't hate anyone for that matter. This isn't hate-motivated, it isn't about spreading lies, it is about righting an injustice and hopefully preventing some new ones.

[cdsmith]

Originally posted by bhutocracy
This is a great thread to strike off people to do business with should the opportunity ever arise, It's ONE thread mate.. get over it. No one's forcing you to read it. I'm over this myself.. so basically you're saying Xnation is a board of apologists? you can be a criminal and get away with it here because people don't care when others get ripped off? Jeez no wonder i didn't find this place sooner. Me and another person that got scammed live about 90 minutes south of you (a big factor in our getting done was probably that we were overseas here) Not that it's an enticing proposition we can meet for coffee and you can see for yourself how fake or annoying this "drama" is. Drama for drama's sake is a bad thing. This isn't fun.. I don't want to be here.. but i've been dragged into it.. I run programs now.. it's frankly embarrassing to have everything dragged up over unpaid design work. I just wish Paul would reply to me and sort this out.. it would literally take 5 seconds... I DON'T want the money owed to me... he knows that.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I have nothing to add in reply to monaro except to underline what Bhuto said.