Trends in the business...

[Vid Vicious]

Here's a new trend to think about ...

The Bush goverment declaring WAR ON INTERNET PORN ....


Discuss ....

[roger]

I stick to the basics, build sites that grab the surfers attention then I give them the best deal I can (Porn4aBuck) a full trial for a month.

we release new niches like Cokewhores,stonerbabes etc. for shock value

we keep adding to Pornkings Like Sunny Leone and soon Brittany andrews for exclusive content.

The reality sites seem to be the new trend but they are not uniq anymore. some do well others don't.


Its all about proccessing and Impulse buying. thats what we focus on.

the new trend that seems to be working for us is the Long page format sites. since we don't have tour pages.
I don't want them waiting for pages to load and lose interest so we sell them on one page. its working great for us.

[StuartD]

It's a long post, sorry... but there is a point to it, I promise....

The trends that hit the adult market are the same ones that hit everywhere else.

Let's take... the Matrix 2. If this movie had been released as little as 4 years ago... it would have been heralded as the most brilliant movie ever made that broke the mold and yadda yadda....

People today are cynical. They're detailed. They refuse to let themselves lose their grip on reality... to suspend their disbelief long enough to just be entertained... to enjoy themselves.

Instead, they have to question the relevance of something, the existance of something... the sheer logic of this and that. Why was that car in that scene?? It's so stupid... it didn't need to be there. The film makers really screwed up and blew the whole movie for me because that car was there.

WTF?

The best movies to see are kids movies... and you can tell me all you want that you still like the grown up movies and you're not like everyone else... but admit it.. you like kids movies... and really do enjoy them. And you are critical of the grown up movies.... why??

Because you're more readily able to suspend your disbelief with a kids movie. It makes no pretence of ever trying to be molded around reality. It does really stupid far out stuff that no real person ever could do. So you never even think to question it.

People need reality now more than ever. They need to be proven this and that... they need to have everything explained and just won't take a "because it is" for an answer.

So... how does this relate back to porn? Well, people have forgotten who the major porn stars are. People have turned away from going to download Jena Jameson in exchange for teenage girls... amateur girls... college girls (right Chris?)

A perfect 10? Boob implants? Stunning curves and a painted on face to look like a woman that only an artist could draw?

It's not as much of a turn on as it used to be... because 99% of guys know that they'll never really sleep with that girl. He'll probably never even see a girl like that in his entire life. To him... they don't exist except in film... and that's just not good enough.

The Girl Next Door has taken over. The more real you can get the person to look... and the more real the situation you can put them in... the more people will accept it.

And if you so much has have a tiny glitch... if someone's ring is on their right hand in one scene and then on their left hand in another scene... you've blown it. People will catch that, and make fun of it and laugh... but not jerk off. You've lost them completely.

I've gone to countless movies with friends who walk out analyzing it. How many of you have had that happen? They (or you) talk about how a scene would have been better if it did this... or that... or they should have just done this...

when did we all become movie producers? Directors?

People are evolving... people are changing. We think we're getting smarter.... we're just getting more picky. Inner child? It's going away folks....

We're losing our sense of "fun"... we're losing our ablility to just let go.

Porn? how long do you think it'll take before all women on paper or a screen become like that perfect 10 with the painted face and fake boobs?
They're not real.... so why bother?

Right now, people want reality... Brad is right. Milk it for all it's worth... go that one step further like MaskTV did if you can. Give them reality... REAL reality. They'll love it...

for a while.

[daPimp]

Another trend lately has been all the SPAM laws, which is a good thing of cours, but could also turn out fatal for all the programs paying per e-mail, incase they set some new weird requirements for mass e-mail marketing "to protect kids from adult content" that makes the current lists useless - like the adult domains laws last month.

[roger]

Originally posted by daPimp
Another trend lately has been all the SPAM laws, which is a good thing of cours, but could also turn out fatal for all the programs paying per e-mail, incase they set some new weird requirements for mass e-mail marketing "to protect kids from adult content" that makes the current lists useless - like the adult domains laws last month.

I forgot another trend taking over spam and thats Ad-ware

we launched a one way messanger so we don't have to mail anymore thats doing real well its called Download Plus in Pornkings that pays 15 cents a download.

Toolbar programs are also a trend for controling traffic

[StuartD]

How about popup blockers?

Most browsers come with them now, not to mention the popup blocking programs...

IE is about all that's left that allows them... so what happens when there's no more popups?

[Bruno Dickman]

1) Reality Sites

2) Multilingual Tours w/ Geotargetting

3) Companies becoming more and more professional

4) Front ends with less lies. IMHO Companies that want to claim more than they really offer should be punished in some way.

5) The average gallery maker will make less and less money


There are zillions of trends... some become the next big thing, some stay in ideal worlds... but those 5 are very likely to become reality in the near future.

Take care,

Bruno

[AcidMaX]

Well trends in the industry....

For one I can say that there are a lot of shady sites out there, and I see a lot of nice, clean respectible people (not that there are not any now) getting more into porn.

I see a lot of the big mega sites going away too, just because of saturation. I see a big trend in site automation right now.

Being that I am from the programming side I am being asked to write more custom applications that will help the sites stay updated, managed and easier to use for not only the support personnel but also the end users. Before many of the sites seemed to be "who cares about the surfer, I just want them to signup!" Now I am seeing a lot more in the way of easier navigation, members areas on the tour sections of websites that are not linkable to actual content, but that are showing real items in the members area to help bring in more members.

To be honest what scares me about all the adult sites is the billing processors. We just recently saw 1 go down the tubes and possibly more coming? I mean not only did sites like CFF lose their rebills but so did the people who were promoting them. I am not sure as to the results of that (nor am I blaming anyone...etc etc) Just simply stating a point that months and years of hard work seem to dissapear so fast in this business. One minute you are on top, the next on the bottom.

I just think the sites are going to turn more mainstream as far as marketing and promotion and hopefully the employee turnover at all of these companies stops.

I know for me when I look at a company if everyday I have a new rep I become skeptical about the companies longevity. Hopefully companies will realize the importance of a good staff just like in any other business and will build upon not only surfer relations but employee relations as well.

Just my 2 cents for whatever its worth.


Andy

[Quentin]

I suspect that many of the future trends in this industry will be foisted upon us by external forces, unfortunately, and will be less marketing trends than trends introduced by legal necessity. Within the next year or so, I expect that we will see new federal legislation concerning bulk email (I think its likely that it will become illegal to send explicit images via email, for example), and regulations handed down by VISA/Mastercard will continue to get more stringent, as well.

Of course, in terms of legal restrictions, Congress needs to figure out how to write legislation regarding the net which is actually enforceable and Constitutional, something they have had a great deal of trouble with in the past...

[AcidMaX]

Originally posted by Quentin
I suspect that many of the future trends in this industry will be foisted upon us by external forces, unfortunately, and will be less marketing trends than trends introduced by legal necessity. Within the next year or so, I expect that we will see new federal legislation concerning bulk email (I think its likely that it will become illegal to send explicit images via email, for example), and regulations handed down by VISA/Mastercard will continue to get more stringent, as well.

Of course, in terms of legal restrictions, Congress needs to figure out how to write legislation regarding the net which is actually enforceable and Constitutional, something they have had a great deal of trouble with in the past...

Which brings up another point...what you stated was US regulations. I wonder if we will see more people going overseas to beat the US based regulations and laws. And I also wonder if we will encounter more fraud from other countries because of the crack down in the US.

[McSpike]

Well there are a few things that are new. There are some I should mention. Like using multilingual sites and foreign/local payment solutions. I have never ever seen a solution of SMS payment on US based paysites or prepaid payment solutions and stuff like that on "big dog" US sponsors. Well this is changing but it's happening outside US.

If you only knew how many non-US signups I get at places where non-US customers can be billed and that's only using credit card solutions. Now talk about other payment solutions. That's a whole new era of new payment solutions and a whole new market out there. So much money just waiting to be collected. While there my be new types of paysites invented, what good can they do if the majority of world-wide market can't pay for it and it's not because they don't have money!

There are many BS stories circulating around european payment options it makes me sick and everyone is pointing on the dialers. Fucken dialers. Europeans like them as much as US customers. Europeans having no credit cards? DUH! Ya right. And what about Asia?

There is a company called Sex Money that saw this gap and saw what ibill, ccbill and all other most common used processors didn't.

I see this as a new thing that will shake and connect the net even more in the coming years than all the paysites with a twist that are coming out each year.

There are so many things yet to be discovered. Internet is at its roots and I feel very good about it, because there are so many opportunities just waiting to be exploited and so much more money to be earned.

[Hashishan]

Originally posted by baddog
Well, the one false thing about TGP2 was that it was new. There is nothing new about it. TGP2 is what TGP began as.

To answer your question, yeah, there are people doing it, and all you have to do to find them is start a thread saying it is dead.


They should be here soon.

yes, and they seem to be in love with the idea of imposing extremely strict rules on any site to be called "tgp2" or at least the handful i have met

they also seem to spend so much time parroting each other, if you meet 4 in one place just talk to 1 of them and you can hear what they all have to say

imagine night of the living dead, only instead of moaning "brains, BRAINS" they are saying "tgp2, TGP2"

all the anal retentive bullcrap that the diehard tgp2 people spout is what throttled tgp2, imo

[Platinum Albert]

Hello All:

Great thread Chris....

All points above have merit, however, I think billing and legislation will always be determining factors as to the fate of this industry.

With billing being a prominent factor for all of us, I see new revenue streams (eg Cross Sells/Up Sells) as additional ways to make money and offset other costs to give the surfer a better product.

In respect to legislation, we are seeing laws changing and with one swift move in legislation, affilate models may have to make numerous changes to adapt to the market. From the affiliate model, I believe success is coming in the form of adapting quickly to change and diversfying your billing and products.

Living in the "Here and The Now" sometimes reaps the immediate rewards of profits, but if you don't plan for tomorrow, those profits twindle quickly. There is a big difference between leadership and management.

Platinum Albert
Platinum Bucks

[Hashishan]

Originally posted by StuartD
How about popup blockers?

Most browsers come with them now, not to mention the popup blocking programs...

IE is about all that's left that allows them... so what happens when there's no more popups?

full page ads in every link. much less annoying than popups. people say popups sell, personally i never saw it, and most people i know HATE the motherfuckers. these people arent rocket scientists either, they are real life typical moronic americans who think that wrestling is real and porn is glamorous

[webgurl]

Originally posted by Evil Chris
I've seen a lot of things come and go. Things that came out that promised to be the best thing since sliced bread and wasn't... and some things that caught on quite nicely.

What are some of the current trends in this business of ours?

Good Topic Chris !
I haven't read everyone's replies so i may repeat some stuff, but i think Free Trials from Sponsors is a good comeback . Higher incentive Bonuses given from sponsors. Since there is sooooo much competition now, for webmasters including Higher Webmaster Referals , Higher Payout , Almost All Affiliates now have Free Content, Hosted Galleries .
Webmasters are spreading into the microniche fetishes vs. the mainstream sites. Due to Better Conversions . Higher Traffic Ratios for free sites are increasing .
Hmmm... Adult Industry is getting more publicity and becoming more acceptable in society.

[Crak_JMan]

Nice thread EC,

Many peeps are looking into same areas of trends and I agree about REALITY stuff. There's also many new ways to maximise traffic and many new tools and good programs... LONG LIVE PHP.

Also agree with Bobby R in regards to mainstream vs adult.

I could go on with many new ideas and trends but why let the cat out of the bag ;-)

The trend that is the most important is that if you keep all your time reading boards and posting the get new tricks and make new friends and contact, you will not get things done.

Boards are the best tool for adult webmasters but the bad thing about them to is that they stear webmasters away from the focus of doing new things to make more money ;-) Loads of newbies posting shit as well that are time wasters ;-)

I love boards and spend most of my night time/free time there because it's sooo usefull in information and keeping good bonds with people/friends.

[virtumike]

Wow I see so much stuff here. I think RocHard, Cyndalie, and LAJ are right. But here are my calls:

First, Billing is and will continue to be the single most important aspect of the industry. Someone in the know told me they heard rumors of visa plans to prohibit adult recurring. Not to make anyone panic or anything, but this is GOING to suck if it happens.

Second, the surfers are getting more sophisticated. You can't just fling them like poop at a wall and see what sticks. You have to have compelling paysites or they won't recur. Take my word on this one, they're getting smarter daily and more are finding that elusive cancel button. If you want to retain them you have to pay attention to each one of their specific perversions and give them exactly what they want. If you do they found a home. If not, they're going somewhere else to look for a home.

The days of three page tours are gone. Surfers want to see exactly what they're going to get when they join.

I hope trials go away completely. I have not had trials on any of my main sites since like 1998. I still convert, and I get at least one month up front. This means I can pay out my webmasters more than a trial site, because more money is coming in.

Content is becoming more important. The members areas of many major sites are still crap, but they're getting better. If you don't have good complelling content in your members area, the more sophisticated surfers who have been around the block will see that and they will hit that cancel button before you can even get that confirmation email out.

Broadband feeds will contine to propogate. The high speed surfers will not tolerate crap. They have more money, they pay more money for their connection, and they expect to see better content.

The TGP will continue to dominate the adult traffic game.

More people will buy my content because it really is the best. If you don't buy it, your surfers will not stay yours. You will email me at mike AT virtucon.net for a password.

I see more consolidation in the future. People buying each other out.

Europe will become significantly more relevant to American webmasters. They have strange ways of doing things but their currency is worth more than US dollars.

Geotargeting is the way to go with custom multilingual tours and dynamic billing predictions.

My favorite food will continue to be Thai and I will still be single for a while.

I will be launching a new reseller program in the next couple months that will take into account all factors in the future as I see them. I am known for predicting the future, just wait until you see my visions. You'll be surprised what we can pull off if we know what to do and what to avoid.

[sweetums]

Interesting threads, EC...and some very thought-provoking points raised.

I think many of the new "trends" have been mentioned by others here.

The rise of more 'reality-based' sites as we see the merge between mainstream media and adult continue. The rise of 'niche' specific sites. The need for diversification in terms of billing options. The need to monetize on as much of our traffic as possible.

One of the major ones that I think we'll see emerge, most especially with the ever-increasing problems of converting traffic from lower quality sources, is that people will become more open to the option of actually buying their traffic as opposed to simply relying on traffic trades.

Beyond which is the issue Vid raised -- we're going to see ever-increasing state intervention into how the adult online biz operates.

[Biggy]

hmm, very interesting threads.. here are some trends I have noticed:

an increase in:

Adult Webmaster Boards
Hosting Companies
Content Providers
etc.

Much much more webmaster-related services - I remember back in the day everyone posted on Netpond with a few here and there, now there are so many boards I cannot keep up with them!

Also, I've noticed an increase in cheaters - granted there were always cheaters, I find nowadays much more people doing deceiving things, I guess its a sign of times where things get harder to make money and people want to take a short cut..

Either way, when it comes down to it - if you are creative, smart, and have good marketing skills, you should be fine making $$$

[Biggy]

Let me expand on the increase in webmaster-related services:

The increase in boards I couldnt really care about, for the most part, posting on boards doesnt make me money

But an Increase in Webhosting Companies and Content Providers I feel is making the industry more efficient -

-unused content is cheaper since there is so much more
-webhosting is MUCH cheaper than even what it was a year ago, prices 3-4 years ago were around anywhere from 500-900/megabit and $3-4/gig.

the adult net is becoming more efficient.

[webgurl]

Originally posted by JMan


The trend that is the most important is that if you keep all your time reading boards and posting the get new tricks and make new friends and contact, you will not get things done.

Boards are the best tool for adult webmasters but the bad thing about them to is that they stear webmasters away from the focus of doing new things to make more money ;-) Loads of newbies posting shit as well that are time wasters ;-)

I love boards and spend most of my night time/free time there because it's sooo usefull in information and keeping good bonds with people/friends.

hey J-man,
Yeah All these New Webmaster Boards have Popped up Recently .
(there's a trend i noticed)

[BobbyR]

Originally posted by virtumike
Wow I see so much stuff here. I think RocHard, Cyndalie, and LAJ are right. But here are my calls:

First, Billing is and will continue to be the single most important aspect of the industry. Someone in the know told me they heard rumors of visa plans to prohibit adult recurring. Not to make anyone panic or anything, but this is GOING to suck if it happens.

Second, the surfers are getting more sophisticated. You can't just fling them like poop at a wall and see what sticks. You have to have compelling paysites or they won't recur. Take my word on this one, they're getting smarter daily and more are finding that elusive cancel button. If you want to retain them you have to pay attention to each one of their specific perversions and give them exactly what they want. If you do they found a home. If not, they're going somewhere else to look for a home.

The days of three page tours are gone. Surfers want to see exactly what they're going to get when they join.

I hope trials go away completely. I have not had trials on any of my main sites since like 1998. I still convert, and I get at least one month up front. This means I can pay out my webmasters more than a trial site, because more money is coming in.

Content is becoming more important. The members areas of many major sites are still crap, but they're getting better. If you don't have good complelling content in your members area, the more sophisticated surfers who have been around the block will see that and they will hit that cancel button before you can even get that confirmation email out.

Broadband feeds will contine to propogate. The high speed surfers will not tolerate crap. They have more money, they pay more money for their connection, and they expect to see better content.

The TGP will continue to dominate the adult traffic game.

More people will buy my content because it really is the best. If you don't buy it, your surfers will not stay yours. You will email me at mike AT virtucon.net for a password.

I see more consolidation in the future. People buying each other out.

Europe will become significantly more relevant to American webmasters. They have strange ways of doing things but their currency is worth more than US dollars.

Geotargeting is the way to go with custom multilingual tours and dynamic billing predictions.

My favorite food will continue to be Thai and I will still be single for a while.

I will be launching a new reseller program in the next couple months that will take into account all factors in the future as I see them. I am known for predicting the future, just wait until you see my visions. You'll be surprised what we can pull off if we know what to do and what to avoid.

I agree with VirtuMike that Thai Food is an excellent choice for lunch or dinner and that trend will most likely continue.

Originally posted by StuartD
It's not as much of a turn on as it used to be... because 99% of guys know that they'll never really sleep with that girl. He'll probably never even see a girl like that in his entire life. To him... they don't exist except in film... and that's just not good enough.

The Girl Next Door has taken over. The more real you can get the person to look... and the more real the situation you can put them in... the more people will accept it.

That was EXACTLY, almost word for word, the argument of Hugh M. Hefner back in the late fifties...

I'd wouldn't call it "a takeover", but more simply, "a consequence of human nature".

Hi all,

Please allow me to be a pessimist for a minute.

I personally think we are less than 1 year away from the shit REALLY hitting the fan, re: 3rd party billing. The recent crash-and-burn of WebsiteBilling (and IBill?) are only the beginning. I'm talking about the wholesale termination of websites that Visa deems are not in compliance with regulations.

Visa did not start collecting webmaster names, addresses and URLs so they could just sit on them. They are compiling data and examining websites right now.

Paranoid? I hope so.

B

[Rochard]

I disagree about the Credit Card processors. Get to know who you process with, and become good friends with them. I knew about the Visa crap long before it became public, so I didn't freak when it came out.

I already know of one CC processing company that is taking steps to move away from Mastercard and Visa in case they need to.

[Evil Chris]

This has become the most interesting thread I have ever read on any board. Many different viewpoints, with nothing held back. That is the very best way we can communicate on these webmaster boards.

Many trends were mentioned multiple times.... ie. geotargetting of foreign (non credit card) traffic, reality sites is a big one and will most likely continue to flourish. Webmaster boards and resource areas I think will taper off and the serious will survive.

I'm not sure either about Barry's take on 3rd party billing. But then again, this stuff comes without warning and surprises the most veteran webmaster.

[Mister X]

I don't think iBill itself is in any real trouble but it does seem that iBill Europe is in big trouble. Much the same thing that happened to Websitebilling with their bank cutting them off. However that only affects the European companies that use iBill and their core US business is unaffected at the moment.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some consolidation happen in the IPSP market soon.

[Phoenix]

wow, what a great thread.

i have reservations when it comes worrying about big brother. while i do think there will be some shuffling around to dodge any new obstacles that may get thrown our way. The power guard is changing, we are now starting to see people who are a bit younger and perhaps more liberal coming into positions of influence and power.

It looks like the people in power right now in the states are trying to pull the typical wag the dog, and go after anything that doesn't fit into the 2.3 kid family that they envisioned for the nuclear era, as they have seriously fucked up the economy again. Most things seem cyclical to me so once the power is switched back to people who actually paid attention in Economics, they will focus attention to where it is critically needed and away from our industry. Although i expect as most people pointed out...there will be a bunch of new rules and laws open to interpretation.

plus there are many new ways to get at peoples money...i think the attitude over at VIsa/MC will likely change in a couple years once they see their share of the pie going elsewhere.

[BobbyR]

I'm sure we are going to see some sort of crackdown on Internet Porn in the coming years but in no way will it pull our Industry under.

I can still go to the Asian market down the street and choose from 100 different magazines with hardcore porn, 18 only, etc...

How much Money does Yahoo, AOL/Turner and MSN alone make from Porn each year? Every search term and click is bought and sold.

I read a poll a couple months ago that stated 1 out of 2 registered guests in hotels that offered adult movies rented at least 1.

Think of all the bandwidth bought and sold from backbone providers just to support porn.

The governement is eventually going to brownbag Internet porn but it ain't going away. We just need to anticipate and adjust with whatever the new laws may be. That might mean the end of Free Porn. That might be a good thing.

[StuartD]

Originally posted by Feynman
That was EXACTLY, almost word for word, the argument of Hugh M. Hefner back in the late fifties...

Seriously? Jeeze... maybe I do have some potential after all