Underage and selling their sexuality - Page 3

Horg · 10-10-2002, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gregtx
I'm now anti Britney Spears and Christina Aguilara...

Their marketing of music via sex appeal when they were underage is just unfathomably... disgusting Britney's mother should be soooo ashamed...

I'll find more...

You should be anti-MTV then. Popular culture right now is based on sex and violence. I have nothing against sex, and nothing against violence in medias, as long as they are used with a purpose, but that's another very big debate. Most of the video clips we see on tv are from rappers with dozens of nameless babes in bikini (and with hard titties to be more suggestive), sluts like Spears and Aguilera, and violent wannabees like Limp Bizkit. Whether they know it or not, they are influencing a lot of people, the same way public radio was influencing people listening to it when it first appeared. They don't have any responsabilities anymore, and what's even worse is that teens follow the trend like sheeps. My kids will only be able to watch Star Wars me says !

10-10-2002, 05:22 PM

That shit is sick and wrong.

The interesting part is that it's not only the Adult Internet community that's doing it... Calvin Klein got in trouble a few years ago for a series of ads that featured underage models (male & female) in provocative poses that revealed their underwear. He had to pull all the ads. Also it is impossible today to flip through a fashion mag without seeing 15-year-old models posing like 21-year-old porn stars.

And yet when the hammer falls WE are the ones who will pay.

B

Hashishan · 10-10-2002, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Horg

You should be anti-MTV then. Popular culture right now is based on sex and violence. I have nothing against sex, and nothing against violence in medias, as long as they are used with a purpose, but that's another very big debate. Most of the video clips we see on tv are from rappers with dozens of nameless babes in bikini (and with hard titties to be more suggestive), sluts like Spears and Aguilera, and violent wannabees like Limp Bizkit. Whether they know it or not, they are influencing a lot of people, the same way public radio was influencing people listening to it when it first appeared. They don't have any responsabilities anymore, and what's even worse is that teens follow the trend like sheeps. My kids will only be able to watch Star Wars me says !

very true

"get all you can today kids, dont leave anything for tomorrow"

color me pessimistic, the future looks pretty bleak

LeeNoga · 10-10-2002, 05:27 PM

Well of course we are gonna pay Barry our business uses underage clothed minors as a front end for teen sex [even if 18+], in these times I doubt Calvin Klein would be challenged...and their models were front ended for undergarments which does not provoke public reaction like front end to sex will.

Horg · 10-11-2002, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hashishan

very true

"get all you can today kids, dont leave anything for tomorrow"

color me pessimistic, the future looks pretty bleak

I think that a very big reason why kids are so damn stupid nowadays is because of their parents who don't care of what they watch and listen to. When I was a kid I could not watch TV during the week or watch violent movies. It took forever before my parents let me watch the batman movie. Of course I was not very happy about it but now I am. My parents thought me good values I think. Even then I don't watch much tv (but lots of movies) and I find that most violent medias are totally wrong.

10-11-2002, 04:54 AM

Lee you are right. And as an industry we should work together against individuals who run sites like that. But as the article states these sites exist with full parental approval. They are the ones who could shut down these sites immediately but don't because they are just as greedy as the webmasters and they know they will never face any legal liability.

Modeling portfolios for 13-year-old girls do not need to include provocative poses in string bikinis.

B

12clicks · 10-11-2002, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gregtx
Have any of you ever promoted a site to see pics of "katie holmes... Britney... Christina Aguilara... Anna Kournakova.. have you ever cashed a check promoting any of these sites??? what is the difference... PLEASE EXPLAIN to me... b/c i'm missing it...

Having never had to stoop to this level, I wouldn't know and can therefore (as usual) cast stones.

Raya · 10-11-2002, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aly-Python

Jesus christ...

To go back to the more 'innocent' hypothetical question of clothed young girls... If they are presented or marketed or the images are used within a sexual context (which they are in these cases) then it's not only legally flawed, it's also fucking despicable.

My friend Gary and I have been discussing at great length what measures can be taken to shut this shit down. Obviously, certain measures are already in place and, of course, there will always be a certain amount of this out there, but ... there are ways to curb the profitability and feasability of this very hurtful stuff. We have some ideas of our own and are meeting with Joan from ASACP on Friday to brainstorm a bit. ... What are all your ideas? What can we do proactively that we are not currently doing?

Our industry's noisey about this a lot of the time, but I still think we are way too complacent. I, for one, intend to shake this up. A lot.

I am all for shaking things up. As a photographer and webmaster well all I can say is just tell me how to help. This is horrible. I am not surprised but I am sickened by this. Sigh! Allie let us know what we can do.

gregtx · 10-11-2002, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Horg

I think that a very big reason why kids are so damn stupid nowadays is because of their parents who don't care of what they watch and listen to. When I was a kid I could not watch TV during the week or watch violent movies. It took forever before my parents let me watch the batman movie. Of course I was not very happy about it but now I am. My parents thought me good values I think. Even then I don't watch much tv (but lots of movies) and I find that most violent medias are totally wrong.

and ya ended up being a pornographer... hehe ;-))

LeeNoga · 10-11-2002, 11:15 AM

Yeah, we all turned to porn, how ironic and back in the old days when the net first became profitable, alot of interesting backgrounds, like engineers, accountants etc....

As for this underage thing, nothing can surprise many that have been thru this adult net evolution from beginning. We realize we can only fight the battles we can "win", and not support those entities that rub us the wrong way such as the clothed underage models. If it were me I would not associate with any company that supports these sites, and would accept that as my voice in protest, short of that nothing we can do.

gregtx · 10-11-2002, 11:22 AM

Love ya Lee... ;-))

Did ya have a nice visit with Faye??? heard she was heading your way after Curacao???

LeeNoga · 10-11-2002, 11:28 AM

Hey'a Greg, Fay had less than 24 hours with me and I took her pier fishing in Daytona area, and she caught 1 grouper [undersized] but was still arounf 15 inches and one keeper mangrove snapper. Fishing is my love and my 4 grouper and 3 Snapper did not count because they wer all undersized...

Bottom line, Fay out FISHED me! Argh :-)

How ya been my friend?

Horg · 10-11-2002, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gregtx

and ya ended up being a pornographer... hehe ;-))

Yup hehe
But notice that my parents did not stop me from watching sexy stuff. Of course they would not have let me watch a porno at 12, but they were pretty open minded when it came to sexuality and thought me all I needed to know and explained it too. They were not the ones shy about talking about it, it was me hehe
I remember when I was a teen, maybe 15 or 16, my mom took a book about teens at the library and it was refering to masturbation in it and she asked us (my twin brother and I) if we started doing it already (with a big smile cause she knew we were shy about it, and was not expecting an answer from us anyway), and my dad yelled from the other room "I HOPE YOU GUYS DO". hehe
I think that day I figured that masturbation was not a bad thing.

gregtx · 10-11-2002, 11:49 AM

haha nice... horg...

Lee.. sounds like fun... i'm workin on my fly fishin' techniques... tell ya its a challenge... !!! especially when ya only do it once a month...

cheers

PattyeCake · 10-11-2002, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aly-Python

Jesus christ...

To go back to the more 'innocent' hypothetical question of clothed young girls... If they are presented or marketed or the images are used within a sexual context (which they are in these cases) then it's not only legally flawed, it's also fucking despicable.

Well Said Aly....
There is no excuse for an attempt to make money at the expense of our most innocent. In My Humble opinion.. those who would endevor to do so are no better than the pedophiles who frequent such sites... Perhaps, even worse...

Yup, I'm back

Ounique · 10-11-2002, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Horg

But notice that my parents did not stop me from watching sexy stuff... they were pretty open minded when it came to sexuality and thought me all I needed to know and explained it too.

Horg, you have no idea how lucky you are. I grew up in a house where sex was seen as something dirty. I even got yelled at for watching Benny Hill!!! Add that to the fact that I'm gay and my parents were Catholic made things even harder. I had major issues as a young adult. It took me a long time undestand what sexuality was all about, especially my own. Wow, there's an interesting side to this conversation. From too much sexuality to not enough. I guess there is a line that you follow as a parent. I think it's best to be open about it without being exploitive. What do your parent's think of you working it this industry?

Platinum Dave · 10-12-2002, 02:42 PM

You see some of those girls, hard to believe they are that young, Breasts like a full grown women on a few of the girls.

These sites are fine, shit they are not nude and if someone wants to look at these pics he can pick up many magazines to see the exact same pictures.

At least its controlled, and its the girls willing and wanting to excell their careers in modeling.

Horg · 10-12-2002, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ounique

Horg, you have no idea how lucky you are. I grew up in a house where sex was seen as something dirty. I even got yelled at for watching Benny Hill!!! Add that to the fact that I'm gay and my parents were Catholic made things even harder. I had major issues as a young adult. It took me a long time undestand what sexuality was all about, especially my own. Wow, there's an interesting side to this conversation. From too much sexuality to not enough. I guess there is a line that you follow as a parent. I think it's best to be open about it without being exploitive. What do your parent's think of you working it this industry?

Yes I heard a lot of guys like you kill themselves because it's too hard with conservative parents and conservative neighborhoud to be a young gay male (or young lesbian I guess).

My parent's don't really like me working in this industry because it is a sexist world with exploited women. I personally never met any exploited porn girl but I'm quite sure there are lots of them. This whole thread for example is about almost exploiting kids I think. "Hey kid, how about making lots of money if I take pictures of you in your underwear?". Kids don't know what they are doing at that age... But on the other hand they know that I am only doing graphics and am not getting into trouble so they still talk to me and everything hehe. Thinking of it, I bet if I was an independant photographer doing erotic pictures (not hardcore) and creating my own picture books with my name on it they would be ok with it.

Shann · 10-12-2002, 03:05 PM

DAVE OMG! Girls develop physically early then ever, emotionally they do not. There have been studies conducted on how differently young girls are treated due to their breast size, everyone from friends, to teachers to strange men leering at them cripples their self esteem.

Non nude but WHAT is the target market? Is it Elite modelling, Ford perhaps? Is that where Madonna looks for her extras in her videos? Or no wait, her CASTING agent does riht??? Is that how Linda Evangelista and Christy Turlington were discovered? Posing scantlily clad on the internet while underage? I think not. These non nude sites are a gateway for pedophiles. Girls that young, don't need to be worrying about becoming playboy bunnies. These are not decisions to be made by young girls. The article that started all this had 7 and 11 year olds in suggestive poses. Fully clothed. THAT is ok?? Would YOU show your friends that and say "hey isn't this cool?".

Yet again, the parallel I draw on "the girls wanting to get excel their careers in modelling" is SUCH a load of shit. That is like porn stars saying they started sucking cock to make it into mainstream. I don't see any Meryl Streeps who started out sucking cock, have you? Please don't bother mentioning Jenna in a couple vidoes and Traci Lords in Melrose where she actually got to speak! GASP

Talk to any reputable modelling agent or agency. I have. They do NOT recommend these bullshit sites to enhance careers, not to mention that any reputable agency, doesn't put 7, 11 and 13 year olds in those suggestive poses. Hence the Calvin Klein ad drama a few years back.

Parent's exploiting their OWN children for a quick buck are worse then the photographers. 7, 11 and 13 year old girls can't vote anywhere as far as I know and sure as fuck not in North America. They can't even drive. Should they be allowed to decide if they should spread their legs or not and look coy??? Should they be allowed to stay out after 11:00 is what the question SHOULD be.

Could not find that soapbox icon for this though it needs it.

BuggyG · 10-12-2002, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cathedra
Wow this looks like a very sticky situation. I think unfortunately this guy has found a loophole and is exploiting it. The girls are underage, no they are not naked, but they are definitely scantily clad, and in poses that are slightly suggestive in my opinion. He definitely covered his ass by calling them models, but..I dunno I don't agree with this and wonder what these girls' parents would have to say if they saw the kinds of sites their little girls are on. I'm curious is anyone in the up and up of the US government knows of this site.

Bottom line..this site leaves me feeling very uneasy.

Gotta agree with ya on this. Am surprised to see what peopel can get away with. Loophols always are there, but I'd think somethign like this would have been looked into.

BuggyG · 10-12-2002, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by breaker
Underage "kids" shouldn't be allowed to pose sexy on the net i think but damn i'm i the only one who thinks the first girl in the article looked hot for a 13year old.. damn i feel a bit sick and worried.

There will be an program about this on swedish tv tomorrow. About the largest teenage community site in sweden where teens have their sexy photos and make connections with others to have sex etc.

Ok I forgot who wrote it in their post, but have to agree with it. UNDERAGE kids as you say so too, should not be be allowed to show their stuff. Ok, some miight look older then they are but the bottom line is...they still UNDERAGE. Which in my book, all comes down to being a pedophile. I mean like it or not, they still KIDS.!!! And that is somethign I never did understand and will always be against. The exploitation of minors.

Ok...sorry for the rant there. But had to get out. I feel much better now. WOOHOO!!

Evil Chris · 10-12-2002, 10:01 PM

My feelings on all of this "non-nude" stuff are still developing, as I believe the feelings of a lot of people out there.

Those underage model sites are legal. We don't have to like them, but there they are. It's like a lot of free speech in society. Some things we don't like and so we don't have to listen, but it's still legal. Parents making these kinds of decisions for their children are being irresponsible.

The what bothers me to no end is the (typically anonymous) webmaster who will create underage non-nude sites in an attempt to lure in pedophiles and then upsell them to legal teen sites.

Izzy · 09-24-2003, 09:08 PM

I AM EXTREMELY TRAUMATIZED!!!!!!

MY OWN DAMN FAULT, I SHOULDN'T HAVE LOOKED BUT I DID!!!!!

THAT'S JUST WRONG AND I HOPE THE PERSON WHO MADE THAT SITE AND IF THERE ARE ANYMORE PEOPLE WITH SITES JUST LIKE THAT, I HOPE THEY 1. THROW THEIRSELVES OUT IN TRAFFIC OR GET SHOT TO DEATH!!!! PLEEEEEEZ!!!!!!!! THAT IS JUST SICK AND TWISTED AND FUCKED UP!!!!!!!!! JESUS CHRIST I SAW A 7 YR. OLD!!!!!!!! ANY AGE IS NASTY BUT 7 AND 9 OMG OMG HOW HORRIBLE!!!!

AND JUST BECUZ SOME OF THE 12 YR. OLDS LOOK 21 DOES NOT MAKE ANY OF THAT SICK SHIT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!

NASTY FUCKING BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-Izzy

Panky · 09-24-2003, 09:59 PM

Oh my EC! What did you start? I leave the board for a few hours and this thread is already on page 3! I definitely have to read this article.

I must say this though... I'm proud of the XNations members who have contributed to this thread!

You are soooo kewl! You have taken a very controversial topic and have managed to discuss things like adults! You, the members are why XNations is soooo kewl!

I admit when I read EC's introductory post and saw some replies, I thought "Oh no. This could get ugly." But you ladies and gentleman are adults who have actually responded like educated, professional adults! That's rare on some msg. boards!

Mpegmaster · 09-24-2003, 10:13 PM

Whatever people argue about this being legal and stuff....i dont think its Right!

7 Year and 8 year old girls posing in Bikini's on the Net!...It might affect their Life in wierd way!

We know a lot of Sadastic bastards who live out there....what if One idiot sees his Neighbour's daughters pic on the net posing in a bikini.....and does something wrong! I guess thats more the worry the parents of the girls will be concerned!

Anyway this thread made me sick early in the mornin.....and i dont think i will come to the board for sometime now!

Evil Chris · 09-25-2003, 09:13 AM

Panky, this thread is months old! Still a hot topic though...

dyonisus · 09-25-2003, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aly-Python
Mapplethorpe was indeed controversial in his actions, and purposefully so, I imagine. He was, however, pushing the envelope on nudity and art, not sexuality. Kids, clothed or unclothed, presented in a non-sexual way can be art or advertising or whatever. Pics of kids, clothed or unclothed, or even in their bloody snowsuits, that are used in a sexual context cross the line. It's a matter of context.

I think this is a solid description of the lines and where boundaries get crossed. Unfortunately there are scumbags out there who will exploit and utilize any means to the end, whatever the end may be...

As people who have active careers in a sexuality based industry it is almost our duty to protect our industry from the kind of people who would be involved in any way with this type of shit!

Panky · 09-25-2003, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Evil Chris
Panky, this thread is months old! Still a hot topic though...

OMG! LOL! Serious? I never even noticed!

666 · 03-29-2006, 11:58 AM

this may be changeing the subject.........but i have stood quite in this world for long... allready in the end all of you will end up dead .. what all of scumbags did to my people is nothing compared to what im going to do to all of you / i will see all of you in three months untill then..

MorganGrayson · 03-29-2006, 12:19 PM

I skipped to the end of this rather long thread after reading most of the first page.

DrGuile pretty much said it all, succinctly and well.

Back in the day, another webmaster and I began a dedicated attempt to assist in the fight against cp. He hunted down some members of law enforcement, explained we were adult linkmasters and in a particularly unique position to help, because all we had to do was sit here and the shit was submitted to us. Well, said law enforcement agent went happily berserk, contacted his supervisor - who also went happily berserk - until the suggestion worked far enough up the food chain and we were told to merely submit the urls to customs. In other words, we got shut down.

It was a learning experience in many ways.

I learned that many disgusting sites aimed at pedophiles were in fact quite legal. That didn't make them moral, just legal. The wide gap between legality and morality is something of which I had long been aware.

However...and this is one big, screaming "however"...using sites that are "legal" in and of themselves to "upsell" to porn can't be. It just can't be. (OK, I'm shaking and screaming and may be wrong, but I'm going to keep shaking and screaming.)

If you read the TOS of every legitimate sponsor out there - note to new webmasters: READ THE TOS (Terms of Service or simply, the rules) - they mention how fast you WILL NOT BE PAID if you screw around like that.

I'm working on a new linksite, and was considering a "nonnude" category, because I think clothed people are sexy. However, in my innocence, I was thinking of some of the content that I already own - a lovely black woman, mid-20's or more, in white lace, nonnude. Very sexy stuff, but she's a grown-up for heaven's sake. Will including a nonnude category get me submissions of children wearing clothing? I do not believe I will be able to cope with that.

There's an old Irish saying that my mother was fond of: "dirty money brings a curse." That's how she explained the Kennedy family's tendency to get bombed with assassinations, etc. Their original fortune came from liquor, which was considered "dirty money" back in the day. (My Mom had a lot of these.) Well, I like money and I'm willing to bend a lot more rules than I used to be willing to bend. Life does that. However, I still believe that "dirty money brings a curse." Anything made off exploiting a child is the ultimate in dirty money...and I hope the curse hits these people hard and fast.

Nice thread topic, Chris. Good to see so many angry on this topic.

The feeling of helplessness sucks, though.