Pre-checked cross sales

[Evil Chris]

What do you think of pre-checked cross sale boxes on join forms?
Are they an honorable way to make an extra sale?

Or is it just another unscrupulous way to make extra bucks?

[Gruntled]

They are kind of underhanded, but an accepted method for a few years now. The seasoned surfer expects them almost without even reading them, where the neophytes will leave them checked.

Ethically, I don't see an issue unless the checkbox fields are hidden.

[Panky]

I agree. It all depends on page layout. "Hiding" is definitely not a good idea.


The wording plays a key roll too. If the wording is enticing next to the check box, more people are likely to leave it checked. If the wording is something generic, non descriptive, people are more likely to uncheck it.

You will get some people who fill out forms as quickly as possible and never really read anything. Those people are freebies. If they can't bother to read, they are fair game.

Leave the boxes automatically checked, but make it clear what they are signing up to. Basically, you don't want the surfer to feel deceived. Some people will probably argue and say "I never agreed to that", but if you don't hide anything and have the text easy to read and descriptive, then their isn't much they can really say.

Originally posted by Evil Chris
What do you think of pre-checked cross sale boxes on join forms?
Are they an honorable way to make an extra sale?

Or is it just another unscrupulous way to make extra bucks?

Chris, TB has been doing that for years, I don't see a problem with it as long as it is clearly marked.

[GoodChris]

It's just begging for more chargebacks and more problems with VISA/MC.

Unchecked is ok, at least the surfer is making a concious effort and stating that he wants the additional site, prechecked is not cool.

[Don Soporno]

Originally posted by GoodChris
It's just begging for more chargebacks and more problems with VISA/MC.

Unchecked is ok, at least the surfer is making a concious effort and stating that he wants the additional site, prechecked is not cool.

I htink as long as they are unchecked its ok, otherwise like GC says, its just begging for chargebacks.

[webgurl]

Hey Chris ,
We are currently using them with Illcash and its doing okay

[webgurl]

I just read some of your replies and wanted to add that I feel that if the surfer has intentions of doing chargeback they will do it regardless , yes the precheck cross sale may spark them to do it even more but than again we have chargebacks for even a buck thats right 1dollar ....
However , since we been using it , the chargeback ratio surprisingly has not been off tha hook . A big part of it depends on WHO (which sites) you are sending to as well .

[Azure Sales]

Cross sells are always dangerous.

Ron Levy, Scott Phillips, and Dean Shannon all did it in the past and made serious bank although not as up front as a check box.


Conversion and rentention - not to mention chargebacks and refunds.... what is the difference with checked vs. unchecked.

I'm a firm believer in "READ THE SCREEN" if you don't you get what you deserve, but then I have an old school Aussie outlook

[webgurl]

ours are not hidden in any shape or form its totally visible . who hide's them anyways especially the pre-check ones
Thats scandalist to do so

[Don Soporno]

Originally posted by webgurl
ours are not hidden in any shape or form its totally visible . who hide's them anyways especially the pre-check ones
Thats scandalist to do so

I htink its kinda unethical to have them prechecked in the first place but thats just how some places do business, I guess it works for some not for others.

[webgurl]

Originally posted by Don Soporno
I htink its kinda unethical to have them prechecked in the first place but thats just how some places do business, I guess it works for some not for others.

i can make you a list of real unethical practises that goes on in this bizz and this is not one of them in my opinion

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by webgurl
I just read some of your replies and wanted to add that I feel that if the surfer has intentions of doing chargeback they will do it regardless

I'm not sure I agree with that. Most people simply don't read fine print whether it's on paper or on a screen, and this mindset has been profitable for companies for decades.

How many surfers out there do you think get their credit card statement at the end of the month and (expecting to see one charge) see two or maybe even three? Now, what percentage of them will pay up anyway to avoid embarassing themselves because they were paying for online adult entertainment. This ends up becoming a sizeable profit margin for a lot of people.

One should be responsible for one's own actions. But also, one should not spend his life looking for where one might get conned, for this is not optimal for life as man-qua-man in a division-of-labor society.

So, IMHO, I think it is a clear lack of good taste and debasing oneself to resort to those techniques.

It implies that you are in the business of trapping as many suckers as you can instead of supplying a product that people really wants.

It also means that you're expanding efforts toward that mentality instead of expanding efforts toward making a better product.

In a sense, it is some deep confession of feelings of inadequacy in one's elected trade.

The golden rule of criminal law is "do not do unto others what you would not have done unto you".

The golden rule of human harmony is "do unto others as you would have done unto you".

Warriors, e.g. people living off other people's productive abilities, might differ on opinion about this last one.

People living off their own productive abilities will tend to agree, for the least snags one gets in life, the more time is left for the pursuit of happiness. In a division of labor social structure, I don't find it in my best interest to be overly sharp with my neighboor.


My 2¢ of the day...

[Don Soporno]

Originally posted by webgurl
i can make you a list of real unethical practises that goes on in this bizz and this is not one of them in my opinion

so basically what your saying is that every time you go to the store and purchase somehting with your CC you want to have to watch very closely and make sure the clerk doesnt slip anything else in your bag and charge you for it, cause thats exactly what pre checking a cross sale box is, its sneaking in a sale that you otherwise probably would not have gotten.


Gonna have to agree with Feynman, make a product that makes the surfer WANT to click instead of doing it for them and hopeing they dont notice. Its just shady business practices.

[webgurl]

Originally posted by Don Soporno
so basically what your saying is that every time you go to the store and purchase somehting with your CC you want to have to watch very closely and make sure the clerk doesnt slip anything else in your bag and charge you for it, cause thats exactly what pre checking a cross sale box is, its sneaking in a sale that you otherwise probably would not have gotten.


Gonna have to agree with Feynman, make a product that makes the surfer WANT to click instead of doing it for them and hopeing they dont notice. Its just shady business practices.

Feynman and Don Soporno
Thats fine you would think that way I can see your perspective coming from a surfers view i guess . To me these are only upsells for extra profit from what we already lost from surfers who abused the TOS (such as signing up to get a membership d/loading content/movies or not satisfied with what they saw or whatever the case was and then charging it back afterwards) . Every business has their ways of making up for lost profit .
These cross sales are not shady, its not hidden or in small fine print letters they are 100% visible. Yes they are prechecked you can still uncheck them though . There are literally countless amount of corporations in all industries who does similar cross sales to improve their profit margins this is just business ...

Example Columbia House if you are a current customer , they send you these DVDs to your home that you did not order , all you have to do is return it slip it back in the mailbox if you don't want it or else they charge you for it . What about when you go to the restaurant and they ask you if you want a refill for your drink or appetizers etc .... those gets added on to your bill as well do they tell you that its extra $$$ ?? Sometimes they do sometimes they don't is that shady ?? Since there is no actual person asking if you want these items its sort of telling you by giving you the attention of a check mark in a box , since you are planning to buy something anyways would you like blah blah blah ..... ??
You should anyhow read everything before you make a puchase over the internet anyways . Like they say Buyers Beware .
As much as you might think that this is a huge cause of chargebacks you are wrong . The chargeback ratio is not that much different with or without the precheck cross sale . Like I said before , surfers will go out of their way to even chargeback $1.00 for a paid trial , nevertheless something that is 20 ,30 bucks . If this is your mentality then you must think any sponsor programs that don't tell their customers about the recurring fees are all shady business even if its in the TOS or in small fine prints ? If you choose not to read it than its not really the companies fault . As I see it , in the world of internet there is no physical presence of a sales person you gotta do what you gotta do to represent best that you can without performing any ilegal acts .
I myself have encountered alot worst "shady business" than this by longshot as crappy as it may sound with these cross sales you can always have the option to chargeback in the end ....

>To me these are only upsells for extra profit
>from what we already lost from surfers who
>abused the TOS (such as signing up to get a
>membership d/loading content/movies or not
> satisfied with what they saw or whatever the
> case was and then charging it back
>afterwards) . Every business has their ways
>of making up for lost profit .

Is the sucker who you will catch unaware is the same fucker who screwed you on chargebacks? Considering that the sharper fuckers, by their nature, are less likely bite into the pre-checked box, the statistical sample of more honest poeple end up paying for the dishonest ones.

Increasing your prices all across the board will even that out in a fairer way since not all fuckers do chargeback on *your* site (they may have charged back on another site, but in the big sea of the internet, things averages out)

So, that piece of justification is, IMHO, total baloney.

Having your stuff stolen from your garden shed does not justify you ransacking another guy's garden shed...

As a business person, it's one risk you have to encur, and you recoup it on your overall price, not on being overly sharp with the more trusting part of the market.

Come to think of it: the more trusting part of the market should be nurtured, for they are likely to be better clients than the rest .

[Don Soporno]

Originally posted by webgurl
Feynman and Don Soporno
Thats fine you would think that way I can see your perspective coming from a surfers view i guess . To me these are only upsells for extra profit from what we already lost from surfers who abused the TOS (such as signing up to get a membership d/loading content/movies or not satisfied with what they saw or whatever the case was and then charging it back afterwards) . Every business has their ways of making up for lost profit .
These cross sales are not shady, its not hidden or in small fine print letters they are 100% visible. Yes they are prechecked you can still uncheck them though . There are literally countless amount of corporations in all industries who does similar cross sales to improve their profit margins this is just business ...

I cannot believe you actually just said that. SO basically its ok for a company to screw you to get there money back because someone else has screwed them before? What the fuck kinda logic is that? Thats why this biz is so under the gun by everyone, becasue of shady ass fucking shit like that. I honestly am speechless from awe and amazment that anyone would actually say what you just said.


SD has lost an affiliate today because of this. I really wish I would have known this was there commen practice because I would have stopped promoting them myself a long time ago.

[webgurl]

Originally posted by Don Soporno
I cannot believe you actually just said that. SO basically its ok for a company to screw you to get there money back because someone else has screwed them before? What the fuck kinda logic is that? Thats why this biz is so under the gun by everyone, becasue of shady ass fucking shit like that. I honestly am speechless from awe and amazment that anyone would actually say what you just said.


SD has lost an affiliate today because of this. I really wish I would have known this was there commen practice because I would have stopped promoting them myself a long time ago.

I made my point on how i donot believe our pre-check cross sales are shady especially the way we advertise it on our join page maybe you should take a look at ours before you start making nasty judgements of us screwing the customers. We even state the recurring process " After 3 days, Membership renews automatically at $29.76 every 1 month. "
On the otherhand , perhaps some programs offer their precheck cross sales in a shady manner but we don't .

If you are doubting your sponsors with any "shady" issues similar to this one , I suggest you to check all your sponsors join pages obviously you DON'T or else you would have noticed ours you may be surprise on what you might encounter .....

Anyways we are testing the results at the moment and may or maynot continue with them but nevertheless, our webmasters can CLEARY SEE that they are there on our join page and our description to sell them are not by any means shady , if webmasters or you choose not to promote us because of it . Then be it . What more can I say ?

[Don Soporno]

Originally posted by webgurl
I made my point on how i donot believe our pre-check cross sales are shady especially the way we advertise it on our join page maybe you should take a look at ours before you start making nasty judgements of us screwing the customers. We even state the recurring process " After 3 days, Membership renews automatically at $29.76 every 1 month. "
On the otherhand , perhaps some programs offer their precheck cross sales in a shady manner but we don't .

If you are doubting your sponsors with any "shady" issues similar to this one , I suggest you to check all your sponsors join pages obviously you DON'T or else you would have noticed ours you may be surprise on what you might encounter .....

Anyways we are testing the results at the moment and may or maynot continue with them but nevertheless, our webmasters can CLEARY SEE that they are there on our join page and our description to sell them are not by any means shady , if webmasters or you choose not to promote us because of it . Then be it . What more can I say ?

First off, in the future dont try and tell me what I do or dont do, I have promoted Sd for a long fucking time, a hell of alot longer then what you have been working for them and I am on the damn join page right now and have been before, you just said yourself you are just testing it right now so you ever think that maybe it wasnt there when I joined SD and started promotion, no im sure you didnt. I never said you dont have text there explaining what it is I just said its very shady to try and get someone to automatically upsell on somehting else. You keep talking about how you see alot more "shady" shit happen other places and that makes it ok, Im still confused on this way of thinking from a business standpoint. As was said before why not spend more time making a product that the surfers WANT to upsell to instead of trying to be underhanded about it. We are obviously gonna dissagree on this and thats fine, but I think you will find that I am far from being the only one who sees it this way. But non if us matter I guess, we arent big time enough for you guys to be concerned with right. What more can I say?

[webgurl]

Don Soporno ,
Sorry if my last post affended you in anyway I didn't actually meant for it to sound rude . I wish not to comment on this issue anymore since you are an affilate of ours please contact me if you want to work anything out .

[Don Soporno]

Originally posted by webgurl
Don Soporno ,
Sorry if my last post affended you in anyway I didn't actually meant for it to sound rude . I wish not to comment on this issue anymore since you are an affilate of ours please contact me if you want to work anything out .

lol, thats cool, I will go my way and SD can go theres, no big loss for you guys so it shouldnt matter right.