Internet Tradeshows - What's going on?

Evil Chris · 08-11-2003, 05:02 PM

There's been some controversy lately about the goings on at our tradeshows... Internext in particular.

All gossip aside, one thing I've noticed in the past year is that people really tend to look forward to these shows, not to get to them to do business, but for the party aspects. While I think this is all good, there has to be a point where one asks themself why they attend these shows.

To network and gain business contacts? I would hope so. That's the main reason I have always gone to them. But recently I've noticed that it's become a competition of who can get the rowdiest, drunkest, and craziest... Which is a bit disconcerting considering we're under the watchful eye of the locals wherever our events are organized.

StuartD · 08-11-2003, 05:56 PM

I really wanted to get to Florida... but couldn't. Now, after not only reading about all the things that went on... but also hearing people defend it... no thanx. I'm glad I didn't get there to be honest.

And I'm very seriously considering whether or not I care to be in Vegas. My sole purpose in being there would be to promote my business, to make people aware it even exists.
But what good is telling a bunch of drunk and/or drugged people anything??

There was a whole lot of big name players who didn't bother to attend that show... and now I know why. And if they're not, then I have 2 reasons not to... one is to not associate myself with that kind of behavior and two is... if they're not there for me to meet, why do I need to be there?

Bree · 08-11-2003, 05:57 PM

Hey Chris

I have to agree with you.. I didn't attend this last show (my mom and sister were visiting) but I heard a lot of hubbub about it..

I think the people that are serious about biz will do biz.. and then chill a bit with friends

The rowdies will be like falling stars.. they eventually burn out.

Danny_C · 08-11-2003, 06:01 PM

I agree 100%, Chris.

You know, I was around for a lot of the craziness, but didn't even know it was happening, and here's why: Any time I see a crowd of erect guys squeezing in so tight that I can't see what's going on inside the circle, and camera's start flashing, I ignore it and go back to networking. I'll never understand why someone who works in porn would go to a convention to pack in with other sweaty panting guys fighting over a good view of some ass (or urine).

If there was no business to be done, I'd just as soon stay home with my family. So it does bother me that so many people refuse to focus on the business aspect of conventions.

And you're right... Ashcroft just announced that the Extreme Associates prosecution is only the beginning of a long planned campaign against pornography. Now is not the time to put ourselves in a negative light in public places.

The Diplomat loved us last year, and after this year, I'm not even sure we'll be invited back... and I think that's really a shame, because of all the places I go each year, the Diplomat is my favorite.

Brad Mitchell · 08-11-2003, 06:01 PM

Having been going to the shows since 2000, I'm not exactly an old-timer yet but I know I don't fall into the newbie category. It's always a pleasure to spend time with friends at every show I attend... but with every show that I attend I feel quite a bit less interested in reaching out to so many of the new faces that I see. For many it's a party and there's no sincere interest in growing their business, at least not enough interest that they'd actually make an effort.

I know that my first few shows I drank too much and probably got out of hand on occasion. I can't really say that I see things changing from show to show though, there's always a bunch of idiots doing stupid stuff. I know that I'm still likely to stay up until 5am or 6am at least one or two show nights, but I'm alot less likely to be heavily drinking or surrounding myself with people I liken most to idiot frat boys.

I don't think there is a single thing that the coordinators can do because ultimately it's the guests of the convention that set the tone. With the 'herd' thinning out due to lower revenues for many it will be interesting to see if the group of idiots at each show gets larger or smaller.

...dollar for dollar, a trip to Internext is the cheapest party ticket in the country whether you're in the industry or not.

Brad

Kris · 08-11-2003, 06:04 PM

i don't know... a few years ago i heard of more drug usage than i do now. maybe ppl talked about it more, maybe they were more daring in who they did it in front of. i've noticed that the show floor has gotten less traffic as the parties get bigger. i have more to say about it but i'm running short on time... try to get back to this tonight

Brad Mitchell · 08-11-2003, 06:04 PM

one last thought

I think that in future shows I'll probably be spending more time in hospitality suites and small groups. I think next time I'll probably just get a larger suite myself and see if I can't try to limit access to the TON of really good people that attend the shows. For me at least, the more intimate the setting the more business that gets done... and the better the time.

Brad

Dwreck · 08-11-2003, 06:05 PM

Chris I have attended many of trade shows in three different countries.

I think that the parties arent any rowdier it's just with the popus of digicams and sites like fubarwebmasters and webmasterphotos.com people are just becoing aware of what is goin on at the parties.

And with the huge amount of traffic these new pictures sites are getting some times the only way you can get you or your company featured is *hammin it up* for the cam.

The parties or no better or worse than before. The parties are that a party!! When you see me at the seminars I'm all biz. A lil hung over but with a notebook in hand.

I never ever close a deal at a party. I give them a card and email them later. After 1 a.m I have a no biz talk moto. For anythign after that people are talking out there ass and its bad.

The thing with this industry I find it a populaity contest. The most ENERGTIC PARTY ANIMALS tend to get the most biz done. To a certan degree.

I can go on..............

sherie · 08-11-2003, 06:13 PM

Chris I was at this show, and I never seem to be around when shit like that happens. I mean the majority of us are there for business first and to party later.

I really don't see what all the hoopla is about (outside if damaging the glass and the pissing on the boat) I mean to destroy someone else's property is wrong and should not be tolerated.

However, for those that chose to act inappropriately will pay the price one way or another. Either by losing business or not being invited to play with the other's. There have been numerous occasions where people have gotten out of control so I am curious as to why this one has everyone up in arms.

Hopefully we don't let it get to the point where a few bad apples spoil the bunch.

08-11-2003, 06:19 PM

This was only my 3rd show but I felt like I got more business done at this one than the others. The only parties I went to were the GFY warmup briefly, pornapaloza, and our small party at Scarlets. Besides for when there were a bunch of guys huddled over some chick or when someone pissing in the isle, I didn't really see a lot of out of control behavior...maybe I just missed it. That's just my 2cents.

Shann · 08-11-2003, 06:20 PM

Well being a party girl I admit to being drunk, not rowdy and I have never peed in a cup! rofl

If i only get one or two amazing new clients when i go to a show then i consider it successful for me. I spend a lot of time with my existing clients and work on building better relationships with them and nabbing some referrals from them. I only get to see them sometimes once a year, and I like to hang out with them, i only work with people i like or i pass them on to someone else! lol

I do get excited to go to parties, like going to Liberace's house or the Real World suite.....

But as far as the lack of professionalism it depends how you look at it. It seems for some of us, porn is our job, and some of us porn is our lifestyle and for some a bit of both. I can't say I love hearing about people peeing all over or in cups at a party I attended, I find it a bit embarassing to know that I was just at a party where all this went on. Being in porn, hotels and venues I'm sure are skeptical enough to take our business, why do we need to prove them right? I'm sure that next year that boat wont' have any adult parties on it.

I tend to stay away from the in your face porn shoots and live shows that go on. That is not why I go. Also makes me wonder when there is a huge crowd gathered around, doesnt' anyone look at their sites?? Haven't they seen people fucking before? ROFL

Cathedra · 08-11-2003, 06:29 PM

I wasn't in FLA so I unfortunately can't comment on that show, however I was in Vegas last January, and despite the open bars and the 'have fun' energy that was flowing around the place, I remember all the contacts I made, and got a lot of great business done. I think that sometimes it's part of the 'act' for some people to draw attention to themselves and their product by being rowdy and drunk. It's obviously not everyone's cup of tea in terms of the image they want to portray of their company or of themselves, and that's totally understandable.

Personally, I don't think there are any probs, but it's obvious that some people have a hard time mixing business with pleasure. (just my 2cents)

Cathedra · 08-11-2003, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bree
Hey Chris

The rowdies will be like falling stars.. they eventually burn out.

Very well said Bree!

Ronaldo · 08-11-2003, 06:45 PM

This being my first Internext, I can't and won't comment on past shows.

We had a few goals at this show, first and foremost was to meet our clients and put a face to the name. We hit about 70% on that one.

Our second biggest goal was to have fun and show our clients that we're regular guys who know how to relax and have a good time without trying to pitch OUR products. Instead, listen to what THEY had to offer and see if there was a way to incorporate their ideas into ours or to send them to someone who could be useful to them even without our participation.

One of our goals was NOT to make any sales at the show nor discuss our products with anyone. We spend the other 50 weeks of the year trying to pitch our products so this was their chance to meet us and speak openly about THEIR business or just shoot the shit in a relaxed atmosphere (Not that we don't listen the rest of the year as well). The last thing we wanted to do at this show was to sell them more products or bring them on board and give the perception that if you're talking to Ron from Xamo, he's gonna try and sell you something.

I met some fantastic people, got some good contacts and had alot of fun. I probably spoke about Xamo business for a total of about 2 hours to people who specifically requested information and prior meetings we had scheduled. Besides that, OTHER people got the chance to sell me THEIR products.

All in all, I consider (as does my boss) Miami to be a rousing success and can't wait for Vegas.

Ronaldo · 08-11-2003, 06:49 PM

Oh, as for the peeing in cups and off the side of the boats? I wasn't one of the culprits, but in defense of some of the LESS guilty, there was only one bathroom that I saw on one of the boats and a lineup longer than the one to get on board. I was bursting by the time I got in, but made a great contact standing in line

TondaB · 08-11-2003, 07:17 PM

Just my two cents...

I am sure that there are alot of things that happened at Internext that, in my opinion, should not have happened. This is life though...any event always has a few "bad seeds" pop up. I do however, believe that there were a lot of things blown out of proportion. For instance, I have heard from numerous people that the live sex show at the Topbucks party was out of control and that the content was not tested and that they were not even wearing condoms. Now as far as out of control and not being tested I was not there nor was I in charge of that event therefore I do not know but...I can say that from every pic from this party I have seen the guy is wearing a condom.

With that said, I go to shows to meet up with old clients and meet new clients. I hit the showroom floor and attend all of the small meet and greets available. I will generally attend the bigger parties for about an hour and then I am done. What works for me might not work for you

The bottomline is that any event of any size is going to have control issues...the objective is to minimize them. I am not sure what needs to be done to minimize the "bad seeds" in this case but I have a thought. We have basically moved from a who can do the bigger booth to who can throw a bigger party type of show. What if the sponsors started throwing smaller functions and concentrated more on bringing in new business and taking care of the business they already have?

Just a thought...

Ronaldo · 08-11-2003, 07:29 PM

Good post Tonda.

One point however. There apparently WAS some confusion at Pornapalooza (http://www.topprotalent.com/newsdetail.php?ID=310), but Topbucks seemingly is taking responsibility for the problems. They deserve top marks for stepping up and taking responsibility.

That's one of my biggest beefs with people today. Noone steps up and accepts blame or takes responsibility for their actions. Of course, as always, it's the fault of lawyers everywhere.

TondaB · 08-11-2003, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ronaldo
Good post Tonda.

One point however. There apparently WAS some confusion at Pornapalooza (http://www.topprotalent.com/newsdetail.php?ID=310), but Topbucks seemingly is taking responsibility for the problems. They deserve top marks for stepping up and taking responsibility.

That's one of my biggest beefs with people today. Noone steps up and accepts blame or takes responsibility for their actions. Of course, as always, it's the fault of lawyers everywhere.

I have no doubt there was confusion just that it was not as bad as some people made it out to be.

Another piece of food for thought...do you think Sponsors would continue to throw crazy parties if fewer people showed up? The parties increase in size and content because that is what draws the people to their particular event. The Sponsors look at it as if the more people that attend their event the better the show went for them. Even if you don't agree with it; it is nothing more than a simple marketing strategy.

Whether we want to believe it or not, we are in control of our destiny.

twinkley · 08-11-2003, 08:06 PM

Oh gosh ... evil chris just had to go and show me this thread .....

I dont understand why this sort of thing keeps happening over and over again. I dont understand the need to destroy anyone elses property EVER. Its a matter of respect. Some people get into "party mode" and lose all concept of reality - drinking and drugs are not an excuse.

Yes, everyone is there to have a good time and hopefully get biz done. But what about the people shelling out for these events? We threw our first semi-large party at this show and I am pleased to announce there were $0 in damages. Not because there was no alcohol (it was a kegger) but because the people invited were all people we already do biz with, or want to. I deliberately left certain people off the list for things I have seen them do at other similar events (ciggarettes out on the carpet is always a big one).

The problem is everyone is so busy laughing at the "antics" and no body wants to be the asshole that says "what the FUCK are you doing dude?!" - well, I became that asshole at this show. I will fully admit being at other parties than my own and reprimanding people for their bad bad bad behavior. I LOVE the westin, and will not be surprised, although disappointed, if they do NOT invite us back.

Its sad that a select few can ruin it for so many. As for the actual business of the show - it was great for me. I went in with a plan and accomplished just about everything I set out to do - i was on the show floor, usually at our booth the entire time doing biz. In fact, I was SO busy making deals I didnt get a chance to hang out with most of my friends - but ya know what - im there to do biz first and THEN party.

twinkley

saus · 08-11-2003, 08:34 PM

Trade shows are made up of the people in the industry..
It's not the calibre of the tradeshow that's fallen, but the calibre of the industry itself.

- I talked to major content providers talking about zero demand off websites for their product (almost flat new sales)
- Over half the biz worried about being able to process a credit card
- crappy conversions
- bubkuss tgp's channeling lord knows how many hits for languishing returns
- every major video release freely available for download in dvd quality
- half of sales from spam, is spam becoming a criminal offense shortly?!
- 1000 front ends to the same old shit in the back
- major players not in attendance, for many reasons, economics being one of the biggest.

Demand for porn has not changed, the net continues to grow..
but the money appears to be tighter to get to, I wouldn't be worried about attending the shows per se due to quality drops, but worried about the future viability of this industry in anywhere near the format it is in today!

My point being, the piggish behavior described at shows is a direct reflection of the piggish behavior pervasive in this biz - shortsighted to the extreme. Don't worry, the 'patent' pigs will be out in force in 2004 as well, each with his own bullshit patent to try and pigout on the carcass!

call me a pisher, but I'm praying for tighter visa controls, stripped merchant accounts, a serious crackdown on spam, and a good dose of obscenity panic like the one that came over the biz when copa was put on the table.

The online porn biz needs a dose of its own medecin, a big fat juicy ennema. These revenue models were tapped in 99, it's no wonder that in 2003 they look like aids victims... I'm just wondering how long before the payouts fall back to $15-20 a signup like they should have stayed at in the 1st place!

I hear a lot about big brother, well little brother imho isn't doing such a fine job securing this business, so maybe it's time big brother came in to crack some heads, the quicker the better - that's my 2 cents.

emmanuelle · 08-11-2003, 09:12 PM

I think that it comes down to setting one's own goals as well as personal responsibility.
Personally I found this most recent event to be my most productive yet...

Evil Chris · 08-11-2003, 11:24 PM

saus... thanks for saying what most people are to shy to come out and say. Well put!

Most people seem to be saying the same things here. Yeah there were some incidents and there will always be a few head-cases that cause a scene or do stupid stuff... and I agree with that.

However, what I'm seeing at the tradeshows as of late is the "who can be the biggest, drunkest clown..."? I don't get it. And I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone, either. Because most of these people who act like this are typically good folks when you catch them at home. I'm just of the opinion that if you act foolish at these shows... you're scaring off more people than you can possibly imagine. It's not the other way around.

Drinkinghard · 08-12-2003, 12:35 AM

Hey guys, 1st post here. Chris told me to come in and give you my 2 cents.

Here is it simply...

Most of us here are self employed. If you want to be a player and or increase your business. You MUST attend the shows.... I know alot of you say, oh what's the point I can work at home and make money while the show is going on and or I know all the people through ICQ or phone. NOTHING replaces a handshake or physical presence, people who meet you at shows know that you are serious about your business and you care.

My business has done nothing but skyrocket since I started attending shows last year. I honestly can't tell you how many great people I have met and how much it has impacted my business.

My tip to all of you is this. You CANNOT afford not to go to these conferences or at least Internext which are the must not miss shows. You can all thank me later when your business skyrocketed due to the connections and networking you did at the shows.

Cheers!

DH

Raven · 08-12-2003, 02:24 AM

And, I'm one of the people you met, Drinking Hard...which means now I can seriously take a look at your product.

I remember hearing stories from back in the day...there were drugs and drinking...I think it was more private...

And, let's face it...didn't Lensman go on GFY and brag about the 10 thousand dollars worth of damage to the suite at the Venetian? They've allowed us to come back...there's money to be made from us...

We don't get out much....many of us work from home, so the conferences become a way to conduct business and party a little..something we don't get to do very often....

I understand the need to unwind and maybe overindulge a little...the urination and breaking of the glass....well, that's just plain poor manners...who knows if they will be back next year....

We have choices...I had a great time...I networked..and I drank...

I was representing Erotica Cash and they were launching their newest site:

Vengified

They sponsored Freekfest and we had a blast....

There's always that group who destroy and treat things badly..but, for the most part, we're a pretty well behaved bunch....at least, those of us who plan on being around next year....

I spent the first three years of my webmastering behind closed doors....and it's a regret I've had....shows are important...essential to business longevity....

And, I'm glad I go...I just choose not to be around those who don't take this business seriously.....there are more of me than there are of them, I think.

Ronaldo · 08-12-2003, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Drinkinghard
Hey guys, 1st post here. Chris told me to come in and give you my 2 cents.

Here is it simply...

Most of us here are self employed. If you want to be a player and or increase your business. You MUST attend the shows.... I know alot of you say, oh what's the point I can work at home and make money while the show is going on and or I know all the people through ICQ or phone. NOTHING replaces a handshake or physical presence, people who meet you at shows know that you are serious about your business and you care.

My business has done nothing but skyrocket since I started attending shows last year. I honestly can't tell you how many great people I have met and how much it has impacted my business.

My tip to all of you is this. You CANNOT afford not to go to these conferences or at least Internext which are the must not miss shows. You can all thank me later when your business skyrocketed due to the connections and networking you did at the shows.

Cheers!

DH

True to a point. But make no mistake about it DrinkingHard, people can and WILL become successful irregardless OR in spite of these tradeshows. While contacts in person can be productive, I have contacts that I've never and probably will NEVER meet (due to location) that I'll do business with before I do business with someone I met at a "show".

Sharpie · 08-12-2003, 12:06 PM

The things that went on at Internext this year, were somewhat different than other years, because they were done in front of more people. These things have always went on, BUT they were kept under wraps at smaller parties, and usually invitation only. There is really no uproar, when kept between people of the same mindset. It is when they are done in the presense of a 1,000 people that things change. It was totally unexpected by the majority of the attendees who would not have went if they knew this type of behaviour was going to go on.

The vandelism is another story. That has to be chalked up to lack of maturity, , stupidity and lack of respect of other people property.

It only takes a few incidents to sour a hotel, or to make a sponsor decide not to be involved again. I see fewer and fewer of the people that I grew up in the business with, at each show. They have distanced themselves from much of the nonsense. They have matured and the novelty is gone. When they are there, you rarely see them roaming around.

Hopefully some have learned from these threads that some things should be more private and that vandelism is 'not acceptable.

It really makes it tough to book a hotel ! Even though I have had very little problems at our shows, hotels are lury of our Industrry's reputation. One I am dealing with now for June 2004 - raised the rates we had previously discussed, when they sent the contract from Corporate. They either really don't want the show, or they are covering their ass worrying about damage. Yes, a few bad apples can ruin everything...... and everyone pays for their actions.

dyonisus · 08-12-2003, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shann
But as far as the lack of professionalism it depends how you look at it. It seems for some of us, porn is our job, and some of us porn is our lifestyle and for some a bit of both.

I would have to agree wholeheartedly on this one. I am in this industry because it is a carer, and the best way to put my skills to work for me right now! I always shy away from the parties with too much drugs and too much nasty! And I am a partier like Shann. I just dont want porn to be my lifestyle!!

I was disgusted with some of the pics I saw from this years shows. Yeah the pic pages get hits, I looked at the stats for the PieCash pics from various shows I have attended and I would have to say they do get hits and maybe that is why we see so much more of the extreme.

I for one want to do business though at least make a few good contacts!!

BobbyR · 08-15-2003, 09:14 AM

Chris showed me this thread a couple days ago but I ran out of time. My thoughts...

I've been going to the shows for a few years now and I've done my share of partying.

The sexual pulse of our shows will never change. We all are in the business of promoting sex in one way or another. What stood out at this show was he public display. Every show seems to have about the same level of sex but it really needs to stay within the private parties in rooms and offsite events. CCbill used to sponsor Fetish event in Vegas offsite at a Mansion with Fetish stuff. You knew before you went that people would be tourturing, racking, etc... at this sort of event peeing in a cup would have been encouraged. Every person that took the time to get on the buss and drive out to the Fetish Mansion would be aware what they were getting into. You go to a Topbucks photo shoot and chances are you will see people having sex in front of cameras. Don't want to see it...don't go. But nothing should be on display in the middle of the hotel, on the beach or in the public hottub or anywhere that people...industry or not looking to see sexual activity. Some people don't want to see that sort of thing. Even people in this Industry don't always want to see sex. Even when we have the hotel booked exclusive it is our resposiiblty to keep it under lock and key.

I didn't see any of the distructive behavior that everyone is raging about but that sort of behavior is typically isolated to a few idiots. That is nothing new to human nature, porn or not. I have always felt that with all the public scrutiny on our industry that as a whole we should be conducting ourselves with even more professionalism than mainstream.

That's all I have to say about that...

GoodChris · 08-15-2003, 09:53 AM

Bro.

You're like one of the original partiers... whatcha tawkin' aboot. Are you suggesting that these parties don't convert?

Personally, (and you and I have been here since day 1 so you will appreciate this.) we used to do business on the floor, but nowadays, I personally meet people out of the showroom.

The Miami show was awesome as far as contacting and networking went. The parties were alot smaller so we all actually got a chance to talk. Sure, people got drunk, but in the end, some great deals were made.

To conclude, sure... people do crazy things, but the ones that are into the business make use out of every opportunity they get.

GC.

taboo_gal · 08-15-2003, 12:22 PM

As our first show, we did an awesome amount of business, made alot of good contacts, met wonderful people and had a good time to boot.

I never saw any of the antics being talked about. In fact, I was even so busy that I didn't get to attend some of the events I wanted to attend or hang out with my new friends.

I will say it is a shame that those things occurred and hope, if they choose to continue that behavior, they do it with/for their own interested group or in private. The last thing (as I think was already mentioned) anyone in this industry needs to do is draw negative attention to themselves as it is a bane for everyone, not just them.