Assisted Suicide

MorganGrayson · 01-17-2006, 04:07 PM

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Supreme Court upheld Oregon's one-of-a-kind physician-assisted suicide law Tuesday, rejecting a Bush administration attempt to punish doctors who help terminally ill patients die.

My husband and I are fond of "what woud we do if..." conversations. Sometimes they're just pleasant whimsies over coffee but sometimes they're much more serious.

As one gets older, one finds that more and more often, the "what would we do if..." conversations cover the serious issues of illness and death.

Could one of us pull the plug if the other was in an irreversible coma?

What if one of us was in constant, agonizing pain with only a short time to live? Could one of us assist the other in suicide?

Sometimes you find out a lot about your spouse during these talks...and sometimes you have what you've long known merely said out loud.

I face things head on. I always have. That's why I'm the one that had the dog put down. When my daughter, through tears, said "should we wait for Daddy?" I had to say "uh...no, honey." (My husband would have sold everything we owned, driven us into bankruptcy and put the dog through the hell of "exploratory surgery" from which she wouldn't have survived rather than make the decision to peacefully end her life.) When the first dog was in pain and my husband was in denial, I stood in front of the dog with a bottle of my own medication in my hand to ease her passing. My only hesitation was regarding how in the hell would I tell him that I killed his dog, and would he ever forgive me? Our beloved Alex, faithful companion to the end, looked up and me and died, sparing me the act.

So, I'm pretty secure in the fact that no matter what happens to me, my husband is a solid "no" on the pulling the plug or assisting my suicide. What I know about myself is that even if he's in an irreversible coma, he's still *there* and I can visit him and talk to him. (He rarely gets a word in edgewise with me anyway, so it won't matter that he's not talking back.) I'm just too damned selfish to pull the plug. I want him for as long as I can have him, no matter what condition he's in. Except pain. That I'd face head on and assist the suicide.

And now...the point:

For all of the couples out there: have you discussed these issues, and if you don't mind sharing, what did you decide?

For those of you that have opinions: would you like to share what they are?

war_ner · 01-18-2006, 02:05 AM

I don't know but, If I see her/him in constant pain and with no signs of recovery at all then I guess I'd do it..

MorganGrayson · 01-18-2006, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by war_ner
I don't know but, If I see her/him in constant pain and with no signs of recovery at all then I guess I'd do it..

That's just it...one can't really know. I can't bear to see my husband in any kind of pain. He's the strong, silent type. The kind of guy who could get shot, look down, and sigh, just like in the movies. When we were newly married, he installed a big counter and cabinets in our kitchen. I was in the living room and heard him say "ouch." I nearly killed myself running into the kitchen. I'd never heard him say "ouch" before. The heavy, 8 foot long butcher block counter had slipped, squashing his hand between it and the wall. Getting him loose was a physics problem. It's difficult to do physics problems while hysterical.

I like to think I'm strong enough to "do the right thing." I just hope to hell the time never comes when I have to figure out what the right thing is.

-Red- · 01-18-2006, 05:25 PM

Defiant and I have had this conversation as well. If he was terminal and in pain, all he would have to do is ask me and I would help him. I would want him to do the same for me. I also wouldn't want to be kept in a persistant vegetative state. That's no way to live and it's not fair to have your loved one suffer emotionally and continue to pay for medical treatment that does nothing to help the situation. If my brain no longer functions, I am not the person I've always been, so pull the plug.

Quagmire · 01-18-2006, 05:42 PM

Yeah, I've had the conversation with my wife and we're both on the same page about it.

Life does not have to be preserved at all costs, especially at the expense of dignity and quality.

I don't want to live in pain and I don't want to survive with 8 dozen tubes jammed in me just so they can say I am alive.

Don Soporno · 01-18-2006, 06:07 PM

Myself and my wife have also had this convo about what we would like in this situation and we both agree thathanging on to life for the mere fact of hanging on is not the right thing to do nor would either of us want to so I would have to say yes, I would pull the plug if pain was obvious and constant and I would hope she would do the same for me.

Panky · 01-18-2006, 07:23 PM

It's hard to answer without having to have ever been placed in that situation. However, if a loved one was suffering and all possible options have been exhausted, I believe I would pull the plug. I know myself well enough that I would somehow find the inner strength to do what I felt was the right thing. I would be an emotional wreck for some time afterwards, but I'd eventually work through that too.

StaceyJo · 01-19-2006, 02:15 AM

I would do everything to stop him/her even it will let myself to death...

Mr. Blue · 01-19-2006, 03:55 AM

No, I wouldn't. From my own standpoint I've been through a lot of serious stuff in my life, a lot of pain, physical and mental, and I just don't believe in giving up ever. Because I have that never quit, never give up mentality, I can't understand giving up a chance.

I don't think the government should be involved in the decision, but personally I just don't believe in throwing in the towel and I don't expect a loved one to force me to make that decision for them. If they want the plug pulled, they better write it down somewhere, because if it's left up to me my attitude about it is pretty much keep trying until there's no try possible.

war_ner · 01-19-2006, 04:08 AM

Well, we can't really tell.. That's just I feel right now but I hope fate won't put me or my family on that kind of situation..

MorganGrayson · 01-19-2006, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Blue
No, I wouldn't. From my own standpoint I've been through a lot of serious stuff in my life, a lot of pain, physical and mental, and I just don't believe in giving up ever. Because I have that never quit, never give up mentality, I can't understand giving up a chance.

I don't think the government should be involved in the decision, but personally I just don't believe in throwing in the towel and I don't expect a loved one to force me to make that decision for them. If they want the plug pulled, they better write it down somewhere, because if it's left up to me my attitude about it is pretty much keep trying until there's no try possible.

I do understand that, Mr. Blue.

When I was in high school, a teacher told a story about a friend of his, a college professor, who was declared to be "brain dead." It was to the point where the family had decided the best course was to honor his life by harvesting his organs so that others could live. One last test was given by a different doctor...who thought he "found something."

His friend went back to being a college professor when he came out of the coma.

Now...when you're a high school student, you tend to believe just about anything, especially the things you want to believe, so I can't sit here and say that story is gospel. Maybe it is, maybe the teacher was making it up to make a point...maybe, maybe, maybe.

However, it left me with a very deep desire *not* to hear a pair of rubber soled shoes pounding down the hospital hallway with "the cure" clenched in hand five minutes *after* I've had the plug pulled.

Mr. Blue · 01-19-2006, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MorganGrayson
However, it left me with a very deep desire *not* to hear a pair of rubber soled shoes pounding down the hospital hallway with "the cure" clenched in hand five minutes *after* I've had the plug pulled.

lol, well I highly endorse the whole "Living Will" thing. Ultimately I think the choice should be with the person and they should take the steps necessary to protect their rights when they're unable to communicate their wishes.

The funny thing is I was with a group of friends and we were discussing this topic. Everyone was at least faking the, "Pull the Plug" type thing, the noble don't burden my loved ones. They asked me about it and I said, "Hook me up to any machine possible to keep me alive. I don't care if I burden my family, they've been burdening me for the past 30+ years, it's payback time."

I also have copies of my living will sent to pretty much everyone in my family, my lawyer, the newspaper boy, the mailman, and I basically print it on all my Christmas cards, correspondence, hell, I think I might use it as my sig file here.

MorganGrayson · 01-19-2006, 01:16 PM

Mr. Blue...you have to. My husband and I had a discussion on what we wanted done with our "remains." We decided that we'd be cremated. Whoever went first would be kept in an urn until the other died, then we wanted our ashes scattered together by all three of our children. We found the whole thing impossibly romantic. When I told my youngest child of our decision, I was met with a stone face, rigid body language, and heard myself say "of course, we could always think of something else...."

If there are things you definitely *want* to happen, there has to be a legal document and you have to discuss it all with the people you expect to be your survivors.

I wonder if our mail carrier and the hunky UPS guy will get together and scatter our ashes for us?

Mr. Blue · 01-19-2006, 01:38 PM

All I know...when I do go...I want internet access. Hook it up in the coffin, urn, whatever, but I want internet access!

MorganGrayson · 01-19-2006, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Blue
All I know...when I do go...I want internet access. Hook it up in the coffin, urn, whatever, but I want internet access!

I always told my husband that if he wanted to be buried in a coffin, I'd slip in some Penthouse Variations, so he'd have something to read.

TheLegacy · 01-19-2006, 08:32 PM

Over the years I have seen my own family die and not from natural causes. Mom, sister, sister-in-law and some special friends. When our familiy was faced with the decision to have them live out their life as a vegable hooked up to machines that would give them an extension though not fruitful life we have all agreed that allowing them to stop treatment is the best way. Who wants to visit your own family member who is in a coma, who wont get better and eventually will die anyways.

its selfish - and your only postponing what should naturally happen. If all means by the doctor and medical community fail to give them dignity in life - then allow them the dignity of death.

Funbrunette · 01-19-2006, 08:45 PM

If it was the person's wish I would do it....I always tell Chris (God forbid) if I get into a bad accident and become a "vegetable" to make sure I OD on morphine or something, I would hate to be a burden on my family and friends, but if it was my son NO WAY! If this makes sense...

war_ner · 01-20-2006, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Funbrunette
If it was the person's wish I would do it....I always tell Chris (God forbid) if I get into a bad accident and become a "vegetable" to make sure I OD on morphine or something, I would hate to be a burden on my family and friends, but if it was my son NO WAY! If this makes sense...

That's exactly what I'd want my family to do as well, if we are on that situation..

MorganGrayson · 01-20-2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Funbrunette
If it was the person's wish I would do it....I always tell Chris (God forbid) if I get into a bad accident and become a "vegetable" to make sure I OD on morphine or something, I would hate to be a burden on my family and friends, but if it was my son NO WAY! If this makes sense...

It makes perfect sense to me, FB. Legacy's point was well-taken regarding the selfishness of keeping someone alive in that state, and I'm grateful that I 'fessed up to that aspect of my personality early in this thread. I wouldn't let my children go easily. I'd hang on and believe nearly any damned fool thing just to keep them. Same with my husband. Visiting someone in a coma might not be particularly pleasant, but it has it all over visiting a grave.

When I was in my late twenties (I got married at 25) my husband gave me a great gift. He said "promise me you'll comparison shop for my funeral." Now, that promise does two things. Keeping it will prevent me from getting ripped off. Keeping it will prevent me from swallowing a bottle of pills and following him, because I'll have something to do. My husband is a wise man indeed. I'd like to be able to return the favor by giving him one of those documents that tells him exactly what I want done and when if I end up in a coma like that. I will someday...hopefully *before* I end up a vegetable, too. He'd never make the "pull the plug" decision on his own.

I'm also going to sit down with him and do a will. I've seen two many families fight over what was left behind because the deceased didn't think they had anything worth a fuss.

I have a framed print of Van Gogh's "Sunflowers" in my kitchen. It's one of my oldest posessions. It isn't worth anything, it's just a print in a wooden WalMart type frame. But recently one of my daughters was here, smiled at it and said "if you ever don't want that anymore, may I have it? It's been around my whole life and I love it." I hadn't known that. I like knowing that. I offered it to her right then, but she said no. "Someday, though." So, that financially worthless piece of art is emotionally priceless to her. Into the will it will go, so that she will always know her feelings meant a lot to me. Not a bad bequest to leave a child.