Free speech OR pure hypocrisy ????

Pidgin · 02-11-2003, 02:56 PM

Porn industry - especially in the US clams to be the protectors of "Free speech", saying under the first amendment they should be given the right to express themselves.

What do YOU think? Is it the case OR is it pure hypocrisy and cynical use of free speech and a way to cover the fact it is actually all about money?

Mister X · 02-12-2003, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by XXXManager
Porn industry - especially in the US clams to be the protectors of "Free speech", saying under the first amendment they should be given the right to express themselves.

What do YOU think? Is it the case OR is it pure hypocrisy and cynical use of free speech and a way to cover the fact it is actually all about money?

Both perspectives are true of course. Certainly it's true that the porn industry has done a lot more than any other industry to challenge repressive and regressive laws. But if they weren't making cash selling porn I doubt that most of them would be as worried about freedom of speech/expression. hehehe

Pidgin · 02-12-2003, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mister X
Both perspectives are true of course. Certainly it's true that the porn industry has done a lot more than any other industry to challenge repressive and regressive laws. But if they weren't making cash selling porn I doubt that most of them would be as worried about freedom of speech/expression. hehehe

repressive? regressive?
Damn man! I couldn't have said it better

Yea!! What HE said!

Mister X · 02-12-2003, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by XXXManager
repressive? regressive?
Damn man! I couldn't have said it better
Yea!! What HE said!

I read a dictionary once.

02-12-2003, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by XXXManager
Porn industry - especially in the US clams to be the protectors of "Free speech", saying under the first amendment they should be given the right to express themselves.

What do YOU think? Is it the case OR is it pure hypocrisy and cynical use of free speech and a way to cover the fact it is actually all about money?

Please explain why you seem to imply that the making of money disqualifies the claim about defending personnal liberties ?

The desire to make money is the desire to lead a productive life as traders, an act of mutual consent between the traders.

Tell me why a de-facto authority who usurped the monopoly of legitimate use of violence for it's own purpose can take moral high ground and claim, for whatever alledged reason, a right to limit the consensual traders' freedoms to live and act as they wish among temselves?

Your basic premise is: the desire to make money disqualifies you morally.

My basic premise is: the absence of a desire to make money disqualifies you morally.

You have only four possible choices in life:

1- be a trader
2- be a beggar
3- be a looter
4- starve and become very dead

Please do pick your favorite.

hershie · 02-12-2003, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Feynman

My basic premise is: the absence of a desire to make money disqualifies you morally.

You have only four possible choices in life:

1- be a trader
2- be a beggar
3- be a looter
4- starve and become very dead

Please do pick your favorite.

wow, i must say i have never seen life summed up in such a way. Was this quoted from someone like Ayn Rand or a librertarian? Neat perspective on things.

Danny_C · 02-12-2003, 01:03 PM

I think most people in the porn industry are unconcerned with free speech, beyond its necessity to stay in business. But there's a good portion of the industry who really are concerned with free speech, and fight on a daily basis to protect it for all Americans.

hershie · 02-12-2003, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Danny_C
I think most people in the porn industry are unconcerned with free speech, beyond its necessity to stay in business. But there's a good portion of the industry who really are concerned with free speech, and fight on a daily basis to protect it for all Americans.

is there an industry lobby group that people in the porn biz donate/contribute to?

pornodoggy · 02-12-2003, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Feynman
Please explain why you seem to imply that the making of money disqualifies the claim about defending personnal liberties ?

The desire to make money is the desire to lead a productive life as traders, an act of mutual consent between the traders.

Tell me why a de-facto authority who usurped the monopoly of legitimate use of violence for it's own purpose can take moral high ground and claim, for whatever alledged reason, a right to limit the consensual traders' freedoms to live and act as they wish among temselves?

Your basic premise is: the desire to make money disqualifies you morally.

My basic premise is: the absence of a desire to make money disqualifies you morally.

You have only four possible choices in life:

1- be a trader
2- be a beggar
3- be a looter
4- starve and become very dead

Please do pick your favorite.

Well, that's certainly one possible explanation of things: simplistic, perhaps, and not one I subscribe to - but it's an explanation. By that definition, the good folks at the ACLU would be "morally disqualified" by the absense of a profit motive - an idea IMHO every bit as ludicrous as suggesting that any one with a profit motive is "morally disqualified."

There are some folks in this industry who couldn't give a fine flying fuck about free speech as long as they are getting $$$$. There are others who are genuine civil libertarians (not in any way to be confused with the political party using/abusing the name).

I think you are kind of lookng for black or for white, and there isn't any ... just varying shades of gray.

Pidgin · 02-12-2003, 03:48 PM

True. It’s never black or white. I just pointed out the two contrasts.

Quote:

by Feynman:
Your basic premise is: the desire to make money disqualifies you morally.
My basic premise is: the absence of a desire to make money disqualifies you morally.

That is not what I am saying. I also see things very differently from what you say. If anything, the first premise is closer to the truth (but still)..
Morality is defined by things that are disconnected from personal gain (monetarily or other).
What I am saying actually is that it is funny to see a porn producer saying he represents free speech

I am all for free sex, free love and free transportation: D Don’t get me wrong
BUT A politician saying he represents the society's call for power and governing is funny and cynical. Those who can say this are the society itself not the people in power.

Darin · 02-12-2003, 07:08 PM

Porn is bad.

cdsmith · 02-13-2003, 01:28 AM

The other side of this issue with respect to the internet is the general public's right to view what they want to view as adults. This goes hand in hand with freedom of expression, because if censorship is fostered and allowed to grow then eventually both sides are affected..... webmaster's rights to display porn, and people's rights to view it.

Bottom line is, censorship sucks. Period. I hope that no one here is attempting to make a case for the cause of censorship, because if you are you're grossly out to lunch.

More censorshit = YOU out of business.

TopGun · 02-13-2003, 03:07 AM

I'm not going to elaborate because I do have mixed feeling on the subject.

But I think everything has reasonable, logical limits.

Pidgin · 02-13-2003, 08:11 AM

I agree and support that. I also like the industry and think it should be protected. But it seems more natural to me to see a "person" protect it rather than a "producer".
It's just that I have seen a documentary recently about the porn industry and seen this big-shot producers and business man talk so much about freedom of speech and all, and thought: fuck, they dont give a rats ass about freedom of speech. They care about money and only that.
You could easily find producers and even models doing it for (also) the fun of it and the expression of it, but to be honest those guys were the last one I wanted representing the concept of porn & freedom of speech
Just looked all screwed up imho

Danny_C · 02-13-2003, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hershie
is there an industry lobby group that people in the porn biz donate/contribute to?

Hmm... Free Speech Coalition ... Internet Freedom Assocation...

02-13-2003, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hershie
wow, i must say i have never seen life summed up in such a way. Was this quoted from someone like Ayn Rand or a librertarian? Neat perspective on things.

Ayn Rand? If you have to ask, it's because you've never read her books.

Anyhow, it's rather simple. Can you come up with another way of saying it?