Embarrassed to be a Canadian

[Ronaldo]

It just keeps getting more and more embarrassing to be a Canadian. First our asswipe of a PM who represents ME doesn't support the Americans in Iraq.

Now the Canadian PEOPLE boo the American national anthem? Classy group of people we are. Real classy.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hoc...them_booed_ap/

[dyonisus]

Dude, just because Jean Cretien does not represent you, he may represent other people...

I for one am happy he has not taken a more aggressive postion for the coallition of "PEACE".

I respect your support of the US, but I am in no means embarrassed to be one of the countries who agrees diplomacy would have been the better choice! After all more I raqis seem to be surrendering then fighting!!!

Agreed there was no need to boo the US National Anthem, that is just in poor taste. A sporting event is not the place for "bad mannered" protesting!

[Ronaldo]

Originally posted by dyonisus
Dude, just because Jean Cretien does not represent you, he may represent other people...

I for one am happy he has not taken a more aggressive postion for the coallition of "PEACE".

I respect your support of the US, but I am in no means embarrassed to be one of the countries who agrees diplomacy would have been the better choice! After all more I raqis seem to be surrendering then fighting!!!

Agreed there was no need to boo the US National Anthem, that is just in poor taste. A sporting event is not the place for "bad mannered" protesting!

Dude, I didn't vote for him but he DOES represent me. That was my point. He represents all of Canada.

I am embarrassed to live in the virtual peace and freedom that the United States Military provides, and then have our PM turn around and NOT support them.

God forbid Iran ever pulls something on Canada. The US might just say, "Go it alone."

Um, actually, I don't think they'd do that. The US would be the first nation to step up and take action. Whether it be in the UN or on the battlefield, the US would back us 100%. No questions asked. (Unless of course WE attacked first. roflmfao)

[twinkley]

So.... the booing was definitely uncalled for I think ....

However...

I APPLAUD your PM for having the BALLZ to stand up to our tyrant.... errr president. Okay, so he didnt make the choice you would have - dyonisus has a point - you are not the only person he represents, and I have to imagine he is going with the majority - unlike OUR president who has completely ignored what the majority of people here want, and has attacked iraq anyways, without the approval of the UN causing untold future problems....

twinkley

[StuartD]

Well said Twinkley

I personally agree that Saddam must go. I don't personally agree with the war or how it has come about.

And Canada putting it's foot down and "not just doing what the US tells it to do" is a very bold move in my opinion. Shows the world that we're not just "USA Jr" over here.

If the UN says no.... and Canada listens... but the US goes against it and Canada doesn't follow the US.... we're a bad country?

oh well, anyway.. don't wanna go on a political rant here.

All I'm saying is... I personally agree with Canada's stance on this.
I don't agree with booing the national anthem though.

Just be glad they didn't fly the US flag upside down

[XXXPhoto]

That's right, remember that a whole 48% of Americans (plus his brother)supported Bush... 21 more months 21 more months 21 more months...

[Ronaldo]

Originally posted by StuartD

If the UN says no.... and Canada listens... but the US goes against it and Canada doesn't follow the US.... we're a bad country?

No, we're not a bad country. Bad leader, yes (Not solely based on this stance either).

We're also not self reliant. Canada cannot defend itself.

As I said, if someone attacked Canada, whether the UN said so or not, the US would defend us.

If the UN agreed to take up our cause with force, again, the US would be the biggest military supporter.

Canada needs to look beyond the cowardly pen-pushers of the UN and realize that what's being done, NEEDS to be done, and is being done in the best interest of the world.

No sane person WANTS war. Sometimes it is necessary to preserve freedom. In todays world, sadly, it may be necessary to preserve humanity.

I don't agree with everything my wife does and I KNOW she doesn't agree with everything that I do. However, we always stand beside one another on any decision that we make. We may argue about it privately, but not in public.

Sheerly by geography we are married to the United States, like it or not, and we should support them through thick and thin.

Now, if they go and attack an innocent, defenseless nation, I would have a different opionion. That isn't the case here.

[Ronaldo]

Originally posted by XXXPhoto
21 more months 21 more months 21 more months...

Bad math my friend.

21 more months + 21 more months + 21 more months + 6 more months

[XXXPhoto]

Originally posted by Ronaldo
Bad math my friend.

21 more months + 21 more months + 21 more months + 6 more months

Ronaldo...

Oh, sorry for confusion... was referring to wunderkind Bush, not your PM...

[Ronaldo]

Originally posted by XXXPhoto
Ronaldo...

Oh, sorry for confusion... was referring to wunderkind Bush, not your PM...

Ouch, good one.

Thankfully he's gone in about a year.

One more year, one more year, one more year

[wsjb78]

Just my 2 cents:

I'm not for war. I don't think the US (Bush) should have started it. There have been better ways...
However, the wheels can't be turned back and the war has started. Now I pray for a quick end of it and that Saddam put off his throne. The worst 2 things that now can happen is:

1.) A long lasting war with many casualties
2.) The US stops the war before Saddam was put off his throne

P.S.: Isn't Canada force as part of the Commonwealth to take part in this war also along with England?

[Ronaldo]

Originally posted by wsjb78

The worst 2 things that now can happen is:

1.) A long lasting war with many casualties
2.) The US stops the war before Saddam was put off his throne

Agreed on both points

[PaulSweet]

Originally posted by wsjb78

P.S.: Isn't Canada force as part of the Commonwealth to take part in this war also along with England?

No we aren't in Iraq - we are still in afghanistan and moving more troops there though to help out.

I personally wouldn't be suprised if our special forces was actually in Iraq right now though - they don't discuss where our special forces are though for security reasons.

Its the same for the USA. Most people don't know that US Navy Seals have been operating in South America for example against the drug cartels for a long time.

[Magnus3x]

It just keeps getting more and more embarrassing to be a Canadian. First our asswipe of a PM who represents ME doesn't support the Americans in Iraq.

You should kill yourself then! or MOVE.

As you know (or I hope you know) we are traditionally known as peace keepers, we dont have much to offer a massive invasion like this and judging by what I saw on TV this morning, I think they are doing just fine. Also, our Country was mostly against sending troops as was the vote by parliment.
A crowd at a game should'nt boo anthems, anyones anthems for that matter and 13,000 at a game does'nt represent a whole Country.

[Funbrunette]

I'm just proud to be me!

[Panky]

I have no qualms with Canada and the position she chooses to hold.

The booing of our anthem was in poor taste but doesn't represent entire Canada.

This war is bullshit. Saddam is one freakin' person. He needs to die, but we don't need a war to accomplish this. Snipers. They are trained to kill quickly and discreetly. One bullet between the eyes, problem solved. Guaranteed, not as dramatic as Bush would like, but effective.




Panky

[Vid Vicious]

I agree with my gov't ... First off The canadian economy can do without the cost of war ... second our military is well rained to shine boots .. thrid it's not our war .. come to think about it, it ain't the americans war either, it's the Bush family war. Bush needs to cover his old man's ass in more then one way. First finnish the job second finnish the promises G Bush gave to the Shiats and the Gruds. And Lastly Make Love not War

[Carrie]

You cannot get a sniper to put a bullet between Saddam's eyes. Assassination is against International Law. You can, however, target a *building* that he is believed to be in.

And before anyone mistakenly goes on a rant about how this war is against International Law, no it is not. Nor is it illegal.
The UN gave the US and allies authority to wage war in Iraq to remove illegal weapons and have never revoked that authority.
UN resolution 678.

[wsjb78]

Originally posted by Carrie
And before anyone mistakenly goes on a rant about how this war is against International Law, no it is not. Nor is it illegal.
The UN gave the US and allies authority to wage war in Iraq to remove illegal weapons and have never revoked that authority.
UN resolution 678.

Hmmm, I wonder what weapons Iraq has that the US don't have? Wouldn't that mean the US holds illegal weapons either and then due to equality everyone has the right to bomb the US either because they have illegal weapons?

[Sly]

Originally posted by Panky
This war is bullshit. Saddam is one freakin' person. He needs to die, but we don't need a war to accomplish this. Snipers. They are trained to kill quickly and discreetly. One bullet between the eyes, problem solved. Guaranteed, not as dramatic as Bush would like, but effective.

You want to start a real war? Assassinate a President.

[Sly]

Originally posted by wsjb78
Hmmm, I wonder what weapons Iraq has that the US don't have? Wouldn't that mean the US holds illegal weapons either and then due to equality everyone has the right to bomb the US either because they have illegal weapons?

Oh my...

[StuartD]

I wonder how many nukes the US has in it's possession... much less other weapons of mass destruction.

Who was it that invented the atom bomb again?

Anyway... I find it highly stupid that assassination is against international law but dropping a nuke on another country is fine.

[ric knows nina]

we should have waited
12 more years of diplomacy would solve everything

[twinkley]

Originally posted by StuartD
I wonder how many nukes the US has in it's possession... much less other weapons of mass destruction.

Who was it that invented the atom bomb again?

Anyway... I find it highly stupid that assassination is against international law but dropping a nuke on another country is fine.

Nukes? Over 20,000! More than almost the rest of the world COMBINED. How do you like those numbers??

Thats not really the point though is it ....


Here is my big question.... so far we have already taken over a great deal of the land mass of iraq.... and found NOTHING. No chemical bombs, no biological bombs..... nothing. What happens if we dont?? How horrible is it gonna look after we kill alllll those people and find out they DID disarm - just like we told them to?

twinkley

[LadyMischief]

It's highly unlikely Twinkley. I'm gonna post something I put on another board, and let you make what you will of it. It's long, but I do ask you read it, and learn a little more about the mind of the madman who's supposed to have "disarmed".

Saddam grew up relatively poor in a small village in north-central Iraq. Well-read and tough.


Late 1950's: He joined the Baath Socialist Party, their goal is to rebuild the entire Arab region and improve life for all. Saddam fits in well being well read and open-minded.. he's a born leader.

1968 - Baath Party seizes control of government in Iraq, Saddam becomes the power behind the Revolutionary Command council. Through the 70's he spends his time as the Vice Chairman of the council, orchistrates a nation-wide literacy project, builds schools, roads, public housing, and hospitals.

He gets tired of having to share power with the council, decides to take some steps... culminating on July 22, 1979. He invites council members and party members to a Baghdad conference hall. Wearing his military uniform he comes in claiming there's been a betrayal, a Syrian Plot. Muhyi Abd al-Hussein Mashhadi, council secretary-general shows up and confesses involvement. He'd been tortured and started naming names. 60 "traitors" are detained. 22 of those singled out were executed (their mouths were taped shut so they wouldn't yell in front of the firing squad). Videotapes of the event were circulated and Saddam was leader.

Between 1981-1982 over 3000 Iraqis were executed with little more excuse than Saddam's word.

Another example of Saddam's "personality". Lt.-Gen. Omar al-Hazzaa was overheard speaking badly of Saddam in 1990. Not only was he sentanced to execution, but his tongue was cut out prior to his death. His son was also executed, and Saddam had his home bulldozed, leaving his wife and the rest of his children homeless.

Saddam has made it manditory that every Iraqi official must read a 19-volume official biography of Saddam. He's very vain, petty, but well-read. One of his favorite historical figures is Winston Churchill.

I hear these people talking about how awful this war is.. but think about what kind of man SADDAM is. Not that anyone is surprised. Think about what he did to the Kurds in 1988. He staged a 3-day attack in the town of Halabja. Poison gasses killed as many as 5000 Kurds. Most died where they stood. He used a bunch of chemicals, mustard gas, sarin, tabun and VX. Not only did these chemicals kill people, they poluted the environment and caused genetic problems and defects for eveyrone who was involved/lived there afterwards. He took one of most fertile areas of his country and turned it into a wasteland for an insult these people supposedly imposed on him. They backed Iran in the Iran-Iraq war, and not him.

I'm not sure if any of you know what these gasses do. I'll give you a bit of an idea of some of the agents Saddam is supposed to have and what EXACTLY they do.

Anthrax: Causes fever, septic shock, difficulty breathing, death in 24-72 hours. He declared 85,000 litres of it.

BOtulinum Toxin (a form of botulism): Causes blurred vision, difficulty swallowing, paralysis, respiratory failure, death in as few as 24 hours. He declared 380,000 litres of it.

Aflatoxin: Causes hemmorrhage, convulsions, coma, liver cancer, death. He declared 2,200 litres of it.

Gas Gangrene: Causes tissue death, shock, kidney failure, coma, often death, is painful. He declared 3,400 litres of it.

VX Nerve gas: Disrupts nervous system, causes convulsions, respiratory paralysis, death. He declared 4 tonnes of it (intelligence suggests he has over 200 tonnes).

Sarin Gas: Attacks nervous system, paralyzes muscles used for breathing, can cause death within minutes. He declared 100-150 tonnes of it (intelligence estimates he has up to 350 tonnes)

Mustard Gas: As a liquid, it causes skin and eye burns and blisters. As an inhalent, it can cause long term respiratory disease and cancer. He claimed 500-600 tonnes of it, intelligence suggests he has upward of 800 tonnes of it.


This is the man that planned during the Gulf war to capture american soldiers, tie them to his tanks and drive right into Saudi Arabia because he was confident the americans wouldn't kill their own. He said it was a sign of weakness. Think about what kind of maniac he is, then read again what those agents do. He's got them folks. No matter whether or not you agree with this war, if Saddam is stopped, the entire world will be done a great service.

[dyonisus]

i dont think there is any arguement, this guy Saddam, sucks as a leader! He is awful and should be ousted, I think the disagreement lies in how people feel he should be handled.

If backed into a corner, does he have the means to use these weapons or have past sanctions left him with only conventtional means to fight.

As for me, I stand behind my original statement, I am proud to be a CDN and proud my government will not be apart fo the destruction of Iraq but rather the rebuilding of ... My governemnt believes in the democratic vote and our rights to be heard!! Whether you like Cretien or not, whether the states would fight for us or not... the fact is, we are NOT involved and for that I am proud!

We may not be all powerful, but we are not cowards nor are we war hungry leaders either!!

[Becky]

Wow!! There is soo many mixed opinions on this war!
It seems like everywhere I go, and everyone I talk to has something different to say.

In my opinion I think that most of the people on this planet like to avoid confrontation to some extent, and I think that by Jean Cretien not involving Canada in this war....has acted on natural instincts of peace.
I dont find anything wrong with that.......
However, there has been much speculation as to what will happen to the relationship between the U.S and Canada after this war ends, to that I say that only time will tell.

It is easy to point fingers at people right now...and I think it is also societys way of dealing with something that they themselves cannot prevent.

I think the point here is that anyone who is not involved directly with the Government will ever really know the truth, and for the time being we can either point the finger at Bush or at Cretien.....but WHY Cretien?? I think he acted on what the Majority of Canada wanted...and that to me makes me proud to be a Canadian!!!

Also, regarding the booing.....I believe that was done as a result of previous booing made to the Candadians by the NY Islanders.....I am not saying that doing it back helped anything....but it also was not just unprevoked.

[Ronaldo]

Originally posted by Becky
Also, regarding the booing.....I believe that was done as a result of previous booing made to the Candadians by the NY Islanders.....I am not saying that doing it back helped anything....but it also was not just unprevoked.

If I'm not mistaken, the Islanders fans were the ones booing in retaliation.

[McAttack]

Well, I am sorry that my home town booed the national anthem. I think it's despicable, it's in bad taste and not representative of what we think.

Secondly. I'll try to keep it short cause I am very opinionated about this war, it's reasons and why it should never have happened.

Ronaldo, You said "As I said, if someone attacked Canada, whether the UN said so or not, the US would defend us."
The US was not attacked by Iraq. It was attacked by Al-Quada, and it's been proven by the CIA itself that Bin ladden did not run to Iraq as previously stated (which was Bush's original reason to wage war on Iraq).

Some very simple facts. The first week of Bush's administration, what happened? CNN reported that US planes bombed Iraq. Nice way to start. Then 9/11. A truely sad day. At first, it was "Let's find who did this." when it was obvious that Al-Quada was responsible, they went after them in Afghanistan. Turned the regime over from the Taliban to a new diplomatic regime. Fine. This was necessary and I feel the Afghans still need help. let's not forget that the CIA is who Trained the soldiers during the cold war to fight the russians and they in turn became founding members of Al-Quada and the Taliban itself. So this was a bit of a "Let's fix our mistake" mission.

Then the CIA reported that they thought Ossama fled to Iraq. So the word became that they won't just fight the terrorists, but they'll fight the countries harboring terrorists. At this point, CNN was pointing a finger at pretty much every other country, especially Canada. Now history is showing that this was a way of opening the doors to be able to invade Iraq.

Think of one thing. How did the US government know that all the weapons in the disarmament document from Iraq were not listed correctly? meaning they knew there were more (which still hasn't been proven). Well apparently there are a lot of "Made in the USA" parts in those weapons, which makes it a bit easy to count the possible number of weapons in existance. Doesn't mean they were built.

Saddam should be ousted, he should not be there, but I don't believe it should be by such a direct force. There's a much more important threat right now in North Korea, but then again, Korea doesn't have all that Oil does it?

I'm sorry, I wanted to keep it short. It's my one and only rant on this situation. I agree that sometimes, war is unfortunately a necessary solution, but I don't believe that this is one of them.

I am proud of Jean Chretien for his stance, he surprised me. I also think of this. When he leaves office, this will hopefully be what he'll be remembered for. History books won't talk about the gun registry program which is a huge problem. They wont' talk about his other issues, they'll talk about how our Prime Minister made a bold statement that followed what the majority of his people wanted. And polls still show a large amount of canadians support Mr. Chretien for this.

[Crak_JMan]

War's not Good

Saddam is BAD

I am proud to be Canadian

But I do give a damn.


Peace Out everyone