Same Sex Marriages

Rochard · 03-10-2005, 02:02 AM

Our industry as a whole tends not to discriminate against those amoung us who have alternate lifestyles (gays). I'm a good example - While I am obvously straight, I love lesbians, yet I have no problem addmiting I have a secret crush on THE LEGACY.

While I am very open minded, I have a very narrow mind when it comes to same sex marriages.

For example, I don't think Evil Chris and THE LEGACY should be allowed to marry (but only because I might be jealous).

But Seriously......

Two of my friends are gay, and they are wonderful. They are gay, very open about it, don't care what people think, and could care less about gay marriage.

I don't gays should be allowed to marry. While I have no problems with gay men or women forming a legal union and enjoying the same benefits I have with my wife...... My problem is that the entire definition of marriage changes. When I walk into DMV or my dentist's office and fill out my form and I check off "married" as opposed to "single", I want it to be clear that I am in fact married to a woman.

Is this reverse discrimination on my part?

Panky · 03-10-2005, 04:04 AM

That's interesting that you would view same sex marriage that way. Why would you want to make it clear that you are married to a woman? Why is it something that really matters? I'm just curious. I'm not saying your logic is flawed or anything like that, I'm just wondering.

Rochard · 03-10-2005, 04:30 AM

It might just be because I want to hit on the women in my dentist's office, or because my dentist is gay (really, nice guy).

I'm not sure why I feel this way.

DonMike · 03-10-2005, 01:13 PM

You know, in all honesty I'm not that big on gay marriage myself.

But the thing is, in my own humble opinion, I think that there should be marriage and there should be civil unions. Both have the same legal rights and implications, but marriage could be for the straight people and the religious people, while civil unions could be for gay people or even for straight people who don't feel the need to be married in a church or have any connection to a religious ceremony.

The legal rights are the thing. If I ever met a man I wanted to spend the rest of my life with, it would be nice to be able to have a document that says our bond means that I can be with him on his deathbed in the hospital or my family cannot contest my will if I die before he does, on top of all the other things.

On the other hand, I also think that "marriage" should not be exploited on reality tv and game shows. Funny how saving the "sanctity of marriage" never seemed very important when people were marrying for money and fame on a weekly TV show.

Rochard · 03-10-2005, 01:35 PM

I agree with Don to the letter. Thanks Don. You made my morning.

DonMike · 03-10-2005, 01:41 PM

Heh heh, anything for you, Rochard!

Besides, I think it's very healthy for people to have different points of view and to share them.

There was a great quote in an episode of Voyager where Capt. Janeway said something like, "I worry about the day everyone in the crew agrees with me". LOL!

Jasun · 03-10-2005, 05:24 PM

I'll sit at the back of no one's bus. "Separate but Equal" has never been the answer to anything,and it's not the answer here.

Sorry, dude, but if you're so uptight that you're afraid that if you check "married" that people might think you're gay, why not just get a T-shirt that spells it out? Maybe something like "Straight and Narrow" might do.

If you're actually saying that I shouldn't have the same rights as you, because it might make you feel odd, I just don't know where to go from here.

And although straight people who want to keep the marriage club exclusive and restricted complain that letting gays marry "changes" it somehow, none of them seemed to give a rats ass that Britney Spears can stumble drunk into a chapel in Vegas and marry some guy she knew in high-school "for a joke".

I mean, I've been with my man for 13 years... how are WE a threat to an "institution" that you guys don't even treat very well.

Jasun · 03-10-2005, 05:30 PM

And Rochard, I've heard from thousands of "one of my best friends is gay but he's not as good as me" types that if gay men marry, the "entire definition of marriage changes".

But not a single one of them has ever been able to explain it past the whole "I won't be legally better than them anymore and people might think I'm one of them" thing.

Maybe you can do better?

sammy · 03-10-2005, 09:16 PM

Same sex mariages is legal here and i'm 100% with that and for me gay peoples can have childs !

and eee i'm straight

TheLegacy · 03-10-2005, 09:52 PM

even have one of those days?

dyonisus · 03-11-2005, 09:26 PM

here's my perspective, I pretty much dont get why it is such a big deal, Jasun is right straight people have not treated marriage all that well. No reason to suspect a gay or lesbian couple are going to do any worse with the idea.

Fact is, any consenting adult should have the right to maryy union with, shack up, whatever any other consenting adult. Personally if mariage means a church with a pulpit, priest etc, then I will take a civil union anyday, but dont kid yourself...

Marriage=Civil Union=Marriage
Both an expression of feeling and a committent to not be "single".

Jasun · 03-11-2005, 09:56 PM

Well..er...I was probably a little over the top there.. but leave it to the two Toronto people to agree.

Anyway, sorry if i laid it on a little thick, Rochard...but it's a subject rather close to home.

Rochard · 03-11-2005, 11:43 PM

Yeah, you were a little bit thick Jasun - which is why I didn't respond last night. My last intention was to piss anyone off.

I did start to respond, and my response was "I'll gladly ride in the back of the bus. That's where all the cool people sit".

I'm very opened minded, but yet somehow I don't think it's right that the definition of marriage should be changed. I married a women when the definition of marriage was "a union between a man and a women".

And I don't think I'd be offended if I walked into the dentist office and the chaps behind the counter giggled trying to figure out if I was gay, straight, or otherwise. I wouldn't be offended; But I think others would. I can care less what people think of me; I've established that time and time again.

Keep in mind that I'm the only straight guy on this board who stripped down to his Lightspeed boxers to go swimming with twenty gay (and buff) men wearing speedos at a CCBill party in Vegas one year.

McAttack · 03-12-2005, 12:32 AM

I think Don is right on the money with his statement. Rochard, if you're ok with the same sex union having the same laws and benefits, then there should be no issue. Other than you want the word MARRIED to mean man and woman ONLY. And at that point, I don't think that's really such a big issue.

I can understand very religious groups fighting it because to them, being gay is a sin and that's their belief. Fine. I'm for same sex marriages with all the benefits. What I'm not for if some groups are trying to force the church to marry them. Firstly, why get a church wedding, from a religion that believes that they're nothing but sinners? THAT kind of bugs me.

anyways, I think I can easily go off on ten different tangents so I'll shut up.

Jasun · 03-12-2005, 01:32 AM

Well, Rochard, it's nice that you'll hang out with gay guys and sit with us at the back of the bus and dive into pools and all that.

Slumming can be fun.

But just once I'd like it if one of the straight guys who hangs with me so he can brag about it to his other straight friends (up at the front of the bus where I'm not allowed) would actually think of me as an equal. I'm still waiting for that.

I'm not saying you wouldn't... I haven't met you..yet.

And I married a man once the definition changed to mean "a union between two people". And you know what? The sky didn't fall, the divorce rate didn't go up, and nobody thought that straight guys were gay because they were married. In fact, little to nothing happened at all.

And I'll tell you one last thing... few people know I'm gay to talk to me, and I know what straight people say about us when they think there isn't one of us around.

It's probably why I'm so quick to catch fire on subjects like this...

but let's have a couple shots of whiskey in Phoenix and jump in the pool, ok?

Rochard · 03-12-2005, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jasun

but let's have a couple shots of whiskey in Phoenix and jump in the pool, ok?

Make it Jager and I'm in.

Funbrunette · 03-12-2005, 11:51 AM

Don I need to come in here and cuff anyone do I? You all still playing nice? I'm watching you guys!

Jasun · 03-12-2005, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rochard
Make it Jager and I'm in.

Ah Jeagermeister.

German for "Liquid Hangover".

Sure... why not... but if I end up barfing and drowning in said pool.. you have to clean it up.

Raven · 03-12-2005, 03:14 PM

I think religious institutions can and should make up their own rules; but, civil/state should be more equivalent when it comes to the 'rights and privileges' of its citizens.

Therefore, I believe that civil unions should apply to all genders and can rightfully be called marriage, which is the recognised union between two people.

On the other hand, I'm not sure how I feel about polygamous unions...

dyonisus · 03-14-2005, 10:42 AM

I have yet to encounter polyamorous relationships that work.. though I have heard some succeed well.. Its not for me.

Everyone has a different opinion on the same sex marriage and definition of marriage.. really I think it all comes down to how 2 people feel about each other, their relationship and how they choose to define it.

TheLegacy · 03-14-2005, 11:38 AM

same sex marriage goes beyond getting married in a church - even the tax benefits (that so many straights are complaining we are trying to suck out of the system) - the core I feel in the whole issue of same sex marriage is the right.. and privelege.. to have your best friend and love beside you when your in the hospital dying.

Its the right to be with the one that means the most to you, and the way the system is set up... any family member can demand that your partner is not allowed to support you when your dying - much less allow you the dignity of sharing in your fortune together.

Image if they world was reversed and you werent allowed to see your wife if she was sick and dying all because society doesnt beleive in straight marriage? Its cruel and inhumane to force a religious view down someones throat when they may or may not be christian.

DonMike · 03-14-2005, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Funbrunette
Don I need to come in here and cuff anyone do I? You all still playing nice? I'm watching you guys!

Funbrunette, I think you were trying to say "Do I need to come in here..."

Freudian slip? Did you have Don on the brain? You can't stop thinking of me, is that it? It's okay, hon. Look at some of the postings from Rochard and TheLegacy. You're not the first to fall under the spell of my charms. There's enough of me to go around (which is why I'm on a diet!).

DonMike · 03-14-2005, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jasun
Ah Jeagermeister.

German for "Liquid Hangover".

Sure... why not... but if I end up barfing and drowning in said pool.. you have to clean it up.

...and this would be different than any other night, how?

DonMike · 03-14-2005, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheLegacy
Image if they world was reversed and you werent allowed to see your wife if she was sick and dying all because society doesnt beleive in straight marriage? Its cruel and inhumane to force a religious view down someones throat when they may or may not be christian.

You know, Legacy, this made me think of something. There are ways that gays can get around this. There are many legal systems in place where we can get power of attorney, visitation rights, living wills and all that stuff. But it really sucks that a gay person would have to walk into a hospital with a portfolio of legal documents to prove their worthiness to visit thier partner, yet a straight person can simply say "I'm thier spouse".

Not to mention the hours and money in legal dealings to get all that set up when a man and woman can simply run to Vegas and have an Elvis imersonator marry them.

Straight people can get married on a whim or as a joke yet I could be with another man for 20 years and not be allowed to be married to him in the eyes of the law. I'm not saying that my opinion is the only right one, it is simply my opinion, but if you are straight, put yourself in that situation and see how it would feel to you.

DonMike · 03-14-2005, 01:04 PM

Okay, I know this is my fourth post in a row, but I just have to say how wonderful it is that we can have this discussion, everyone can share their points of view, agree and disagree, but that we are all doing it in such a professional manner. People are putting out their ideas, albiet some a little passionately, yet nobody had to resort to name calling or rudeness. It is a great discussion filled with many points of view. I love these kinds of topics because it lets people get to know each other on a different level and even when you disagree with someone, by listening to them you learn something. So it's a win/win situation.

Jasun · 03-14-2005, 01:15 PM

It's OK, Don, I'm still making dinner tonight.

DonMike · 03-14-2005, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jasun
It's OK, Don, I'm still making dinner tonight.

Hee hee.

BTW, you all have to know that Jasun is an amazing cook. And I'm not just saying that because I was picking on him in this thread. He does things to chicken that you cannot even imagine. And I don't even like chicken but after tasting some of Jasun's cooking it's becoming a favorite.

Okay, back to the thread.

TheLegacy · 03-14-2005, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WWC-DonMike
Okay, I know this is my fourth post in a row, but I just have to say how wonderful it is that we can have this discussion, everyone can share their points of view, agree and disagree, but that we are all doing it in such a professional manner. People are putting out their ideas, albiet some a little passionately, yet nobody had to resort to name calling or rudeness. It is a great discussion filled with many points of view. I love these kinds of topics because it lets people get to know each other on a different level and even when you disagree with someone, by listening to them you learn something. So it's a win/win situation.

blow me Don.

no seriously.. can you ??

why does Jasun get all the fun , oh what have I done in life to deserve this??

Jasun · 03-14-2005, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WWC-DonMike
He does things to chicken that you cannot even imagine.

Maybe you should just say "Poultry".

cuz.. well.. you know...